COMAC C919 - China's first modern airliner

broadsword

broadsword

Brigadier
lcloo said:
I hate all these to and fro arguments and my advise is to get the facts rights before you write. Is there such thing as Stock Markets and public listed banks and airliners in Soviet era?

My last post any way, don't like all these to and fro, to and fro, to and fro to and fro argument. May be you like this, but not me. You know what they called this in Singapore? Kiasu is the word.
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B.I.B. said:
Don't know about you,but I have learnt a lot.
Anyway isn't this what the forums about.....exchanging information and viewpoints?
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Basically, China's airline manufacturing industry has nothing to do with the Soviet model of economy. The bottom line is that China has a big domestic market that it can leverage for economies of scale, something that Embraer and Bombardier do not. Whether COMAC is government owned or not is China's own business and will be subject to WTO rules in the international trade arena.
 
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ahojunk

Senior Member
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2015-11-04 15:34 | China News Service | Editor:Li Yan

The Comac C919 is the largest commercial airliner designed and built in China since the defunct Shanghai Y-10. The comfort and environment of the cabin is an important part of the C919. Tianjin University has successfully finished the numerical simulation and optimal design of the air distribution system for the C919, making the air in the cabin 20 percent fresher than regular commercial airliners. (CNS photo/Tong Yu)

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asif iqbal

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
ahojunk said:
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2015-11-04 15:34 | China News Service | Editor:Li Yan

The Comac C919 is the largest commercial airliner designed and built in China since the defunct Shanghai Y-10. The comfort and environment of the cabin is an important part of the C919. Tianjin University has successfully finished the numerical simulation and optimal design of the air distribution system for the C919, making the air in the cabin 20 percent fresher than regular commercial airliners. (CNS photo/Tong Yu)

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Just shows the time and effort which has to go into a commercial liner

This is not a easy business but China is really turning on the style now with ARJ21 and C919 it's looks like they have cracked this
 
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taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
b787 said:
If you know how Embraer or Bombardier have developed, and you know a bit about Tupolev, you can understand the Chinese logic and Path with C919 and even the Japanese MRJ philosophy.

Let us start with Bombardier, Embraer, and Sukhoi.
These companies are backed by medium size economies, economies in the range of USD 1.5-3.5 trillion dollars.

Russia, Canada and Brazil have relatively small domestic markets, thus Brazil and Canada needed exports to create their domestic aircraft industries, same is Russia.

MRJ is backed by a large company that makes not only aircraft but many other products, and has a relatively big domestic market.

Embraer aircraft are mainly bought in the US and Europe, thus they have good connections with the western countries in the financial and industrial areas and Brazil is not their main market.

Tupolev and Sukhoi have bad relations with the west, a relatively small domestic Market, so Tu-330 failed and Sukhoi decided to go for cheaper planes to reduce risks, so SSJ fills the same gap E-170, but it will be bought mostly in Russia with a few aircraft in the West.

C919 is backed by a very large economy, in PPP GDP as large as Europe the US, thus the Market is big, C919 is supposedly to be a Chinese counterpart of B-737 and A-320.
China is betting domestic orders will justify the program, however most of its customers are Chinese owned airliners that are backed directly by the Chinese government.

Here you can see a difference in Philosophy between Comac and Embraer, Embraer jets needed USA and European orders once they got them their jets became sold around the world.

Comac is betting Chinese orders will follow international orders, the Chinese orders are backed by the Chinese Government banks, same is the Sukhoi Project, but Sukhoi needs export orders more than C919 or ARj-21.


I can not say if it will succeed or not as a program, only that i am sure China will be a large player for sure either with a Partnership or by it self but about the program it self is not an export oriented program in the same way Embraer programs are, they might win international orders but now they have not really make an impact beyond China.
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hmm, you really confuse me. I don't really get what you want to say.
All along, I was trying to say that Airbus/Europe is on the same class/comparable to Comac/China, therefor, we should watch Comac's development, stragtegy, tactics etc along the Airbus line, RATHER than Bombardier, Embraer, and Sukhoi and MRJ's line. Now, what you said above just supports my point. What were we arguing about all this time?
I suspect there was a misunderstanding, so I will stop here.:)
 
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B.I.B.

Captain
With comparisons having being made with the Russian aircraft industry, I wonder if the proposed joint development of the C929 with the Russians next year will become a reality?
 
TerraN_EmpirE

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Hard to say as The Russians also have the MC21 which sits Directly between the C919 and The C929 in seating. the Questions are 1) do Comac And UAC feel that they will not interfere with each others bids enough to partner and 2) If so or if not Does Comac feel It needs and can rely on the Russian Partner?
I suspect With or Without Russian partnership Comac will move ahead with C929
 
asif iqbal

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
TerraN_EmpirE said:
Hard to say as The Russians also have the MC21 which sits Directly between the C919 and The C929 in seating. the Questions are 1) do Comac And UAC feel that they will not interfere with each others bids enough to partner and 2) If so or if not Does Comac feel It needs and can rely on the Russian Partner?
I suspect With or Without Russian partnership Comac will move ahead with C929
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At this point and time ARJ21 and C919 are hitting the Chinese markets and in large numbers

Basically keeping the money from going to Boeing and Airbus

Russian air liner has no interference here not does the Japanese one

After that we can think about larger jets and exports
 
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duncanidaho

Junior Member
TerraN_EmpirE said:
Hard to say as The Russians also have the MC21 which sits Directly between the C919 and The C929 in seating. the Questions are 1) do Comac And UAC feel that they will not interfere with each others bids enough to partner and 2) If so or if not Does Comac feel It needs and can rely on the Russian Partner?
I suspect With or Without Russian partnership Comac will move ahead with C929
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I think the MS-21 is in the same class of C 919 with approximately the same fuselage diameter, an extented version of C 919 will also offers more seats. The C 929 will be more in the class of A330/340.
 
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taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
B.I.B. said:
With comparisons having being made with the Russian aircraft industry, I wonder if the proposed joint development of the C929 with the Russians next year will become a reality?
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I can't be sure of Russian commitment to the project due to the past experience that Russia seemed always try to hold back something to keep a technology lead over China. But Russia may have changed her mind today.
China is committed to C929, so it will go on with or without Russian participation.
For a commercial airliner to be successful, we need a big market, that is a big geographical area to cover, a big and wealthy population (to buy tickets), a big and dynamic economy (to generate the need for travel). China has all the three. Russia has the first one only (so far). So China has a better chance to succeed in this project than Russia if the two go separately. Russia has some advantage over China that she can contribute today, namely aero-dynamic design experience and engine, but not for long. When WS-20/CJ-1000 matures in the not long future, Russia would loose all her edges.
Basically, Russia need a big foreign market for their domestic airliner project going, only China is willing and able to provide that IF Russia is willing to provide their advanced knowhow in cooperation, and that offer will not be long. If the two work together, in the worst scenario, C929's FAA certification is delayed or blocked for whatever reason, C929 would still have a vast land and sea area, and big population to cover, that is almost the whole Eurasian landmass.
So my conclusion is that, the joint project of C929 will become reality.
 
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