COMAC C919 - China's first modern airliner

taxiya said:

I agree with your analysis. The cooperation will start between COMAC and UAC, there is governmental agreement? or MOU about it. It will probably take a long time before Embraer and Bombardier join (if they ever choose to join).
My original post regarding the joint venture was a wish (as I have said), I personally don't see Brazil and Canada joining in the near future, not before C919 showing success, that could be 10 years from now. However, joining force of these four, especially in area like wide-body (C929 class and up, which non of the four has any experience) is important for all of them to get into that part of the market as montyp165 has pointed out. I am sure China and probably Russia have that in their mind, not sure about the other two. This is why I made my wish.

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In the case of Russia they do have experience with wide body aircraft, the Il-96 is an example and large aircraft like An-124 can also carry troops, they have experience with aircraft in the B-757 class the example is the Tu-204, Russia`s problem was after the Soviet Union collapsed, Ukraine the largest republic after Russia had terrible economic troubles that prevent Russia and Ukriane to invest in large aircraft, so the An-124/An-225 were leased and sold in small quantities, so there was no possibility to invest in a Jumbo type aircraft.

Russia lost all its markets with the exception of Cuba , Iran, Egypt and few other third world nations which hardly could keep a large demand of aircraft, yes they sold a few Tu-204s and Il-96 here and there, but they were far from successful.
They have only sold around a hundred of each Tu-204 and Il-96 type aircraft.
Compared to aircraft like B-757 or B-747 well the numbers were too low.
So yes if Russia`s aerospace industry falters they will seek China and India`s help, since those countries have huge populations and will demand large amounts of aircraft.

Canada`s Bombardier went to China and Mexico to manufacture key parts of their aircraft, in order to compete with Embraer`s cheap labor.

Bombardier's Chinese CSeries supplier on track?
A tour of Bombardier Inc.’s Chinese supplier, SAC Commercial Aircraft Co. Ltd., has left analysts with both a sense of comfort and concern about its role in the CSeries program.

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So already you have an alliance SAC-Bombardier and Harbin-Embraer, however the Brazilians are not successful in China, so i doubt they will engage in another deal with Comac

Embraer could cease production at Harbin

• 07 SEPTEMBER, 2015
  
• BY: MAVIS TOH
  
• BEIJING

Embraer says it could cease production at its Harbin assembly line if it is unable to reach a resolution with Chinese authorities on taxes imposed on imported components.

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b787 said:

In the case of Russia they do have experience with wide body aircraft, the Il-96 is an example and large aircraft like An-124 can also carry troops, they have experience with aircraft in the B-757 class the example is the Tu-204, Russia`s problem was after the Soviet Union collapsed, Ukraine the largest republic after Russia had terrible economic troubles that prevent Russia and Ukriane to invest in large aircraft, so the An-124/An-225 were leased and sold in small quantities, so there was no possibility to invest in a Jumbo type aircraft.

Russia lost all its markets with the exception of Cuba , Iran, Egypt and few other third world nations which hardly could keep a large demand of aircraft, yes they sold a few Tu-204s and Il-96 here and there, but they were far from successful.
They have only sold around a hundred of each Tu-204 and Il-96 type aircraft.
Compared to aircraft like B-757 or B-747 well the numbers were too low.

So yes if Russia`s aerospace industry falters they will seek China and India`s help, since those countries have huge populations and will demand large amounts of aircraft.

Canada`s Bombardier went to China and Mexico to manufacture key parts of their aircraft, in order to compete with Embraer`s cheap labor.

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So already you have an alliance SAC-Bombardier and Harbin-Embraer, however the Brazilians are not successful in China, so i doubt they will engage in another deal with Comac

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Thanks for the infor of il-96, I missed that.
Regarding the cooperation of SAC-Bombardier and Harbin-Embraer, it is a sign of some willingness to work together, that is good for my wish. One can choose to be optimistic or pessimistic, but regardless which, if there is a first time, there can be a second time.

The C919 are ARJ21 are going to have trouble stacking up against the MRJ in the eys of potential operators. Quality control isn't exactly a forte of the Chinese.

taxiya said:

Thanks for the infor of il-96, I missed that.
Regarding the cooperation of SAC-Bombardier and Harbin-Embraer, it is a sign of some willingness to work together, that is good for my wish. One can choose to be optimistic or pessimistic, but regardless which, if there is a first time, there can be a second time.

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China is already a player and a big one, what happens is leading a program does not mean you make eveything, C919 could lead to more Chinese lead programs.

Embraer has not closed their plant in China because they know things could change, and Bombardier already has an alliance with China, however how are they going to share if they decide to have a common program, no one knows at this moment, everything will depend on market trends and the fate of these programs.

Here we can see the contenders

SinoSoldier said:

The C919 are ARJ21 are going to have trouble stacking up against the MRJ in the eys of potential operators. Quality control isn't exactly a forte of the Chinese.

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That has to do more with media stereotype than actuality of high tech commercial planes. There are plenty of Chinese quality products that doesn't get recognition. Didn't the naysayers say the same thing about China's UAV having trouble getting foreign buyers, until Iraq military and others show off it off?

Equation said:

That has to do more with media stereotype than actuality of high tech commercial planes. There are plenty of Chinese quality products that doesn't get recognition. Didn't the naysayers say the same thing about China's UAV having trouble getting foreign buyers, until Iraq military and others show off it off?

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True, but MRJ is likely going to be certified by both the FAA and Europeans; aviation magazines are much less optimistic when it comes to the Chinese.

Agreed, but IMO it is much more related to the other issues like the question, if COMAC can indeed gain FAA-certification and if it could establish a fine support and supply chain ... after sales support and type rating as well.

Additionally it nicely fits: Japan is one of the good guys in the Western media and everything from China is bad, evil, an intrusion into established markets and intrusion into political and economic (as well as geographical - see SCS issue) regions, where the good guys were dominating.

Deino

I thought we were going to leave MRJ out of the conversation.

Agreed.

Deino said:

Additionally it nicely fits: Japan is one of the good guys in the Western media and everything from China is bad, evil, an intrusion into established markets and intrusion into political and economic (as well as geographical - see SCS issue) regions, where the good guys were dominating.

Deino

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It is always the bottom line. Money talks.