COMAC C919 - China's first modern airliner

b787

b787

Captain
Equation said:
That has to do more with media stereotype than actuality of high tech commercial planes. There are plenty of Chinese quality products that doesn't get recognition. Didn't the naysayers say the same thing about China's UAV having trouble getting foreign buyers, until Iraq military and others show off it off?
Click to expand...
i do not think that is the case, airliners buy safety and profits. just think if you will fly what aircraft do you trust more? A well proven B-737 or a MS-21 or C919? people have concerns when they do not know something, airliners sell tickets when they sell safety, and they demand from the manufacturers safety and profitability meaning less fuel per kg and passenger and the most serviceability with the least maintenance since once an aircraft is sold several airliners will buy it only if it is cheap to operate and the safest.

If you look the statistics you will find B-737 has the same accident rate than several Russian aircraft like Tu-204 but slightly better than Tu-154, however people buy B-737 because it is cheap to operate and offers you better engines, Russia solved that with the MS-21, but still some airliners might buy the MS-21 with western engines and avionics rather than Russian due to reliability.

C919 does not offer anything in the west Airbus or Boeing have since the engines are Western and same many subsystems, further more China has not proven their ARJ-21 a success, this really affects the program, for China to succeed they need to prove they are safe and more maintainable than Airbus or Boeing.

Why? the C919 might be cheaper this does not mean it is safer or more maintainable, once it flies the West will re-engine their aircraft, so for Comac they need to pack they jet with technologies that prove it is safer and cheaper to operate than Airbus and Boeing.

Russia could not compete due to lower (very slight lower safety) and slightly less serviceability due to inferior engines (older engine types) than all the Western aircraft this forced the russian airliners to buy western types.
 
b787

b787

Captain
Deino said:
Agreed, but IMO it is much more related to the other issues like the question, if COMAC can indeed gain FAA-certification and if it could establish a fine support and supply chain ... after sales support and type rating as well.

Additionally it nicely fits: Japan is one of the good guys in the Western media and everything from China is bad, evil, an intrusion into established markets and intrusion into political and economic (as well as geographical - see SCS issue) regions, where the good guys were dominating.

Deino
Click to expand...
Is not about propaganda, it is all about safety, when we fly we fly praying the jet does not fall, many people will not fly an aircraft if it start to fall remember the HAvilland Comet, the B-707 started winning the battle when Comet started falling from the sky due to a defect in design in the fuselage structure (windows were the problem), the Tu-154s were old so even in Russia people started demanding Boeing and Airbus aircraft.
Airliners buy safety first later serviceability, Tu-204 and Il-96 were and are as good in safety to Western types but they are less economical, and for the same reason Aeroflot started buying Boeing and Airbus aircraft.

Comac needs to prove the C919 is as safe as other jets as cheaper to operate or at least as safe and cheap than any contender.
 
Deino

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Back to the C919, SamuraiBlue is correct.

By the way have there been any reports about the schedule for the next steps:
- when will the taxi-tests begin ?
- maiden flight planned in second quarter 2016 !?
- when will 102 appear ??

Deino
 
vincent

vincent

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Deino said:
Back to the C919, SamuraiBlue is correct.

By the way have there been any reports about the schedule for the next steps:
- when will the taxi-tests begin ?
- maiden flight planned in second quarter 2016 !?
- when will 102 appear ??

Deino
Click to expand...

First flight may be in third quarter
In chinese
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 
M

montyp165

Senior Member
Some commentary on the C919 by Feng:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


My response to this is that I think he's too negative about the C919 and COMAC in terms of building up a viable commercial enterprise from these starting projects. As Feng notes in the commentary, both Boeing and Airbus already have suppliers and even final assembly lines in China, so making use of those same suppliers and knowhow greatly simplifies COMAC's own projects much more so than having to build everything from scratch. Also the ARJ-21 not meeting FAA certification is hardly a big problem, given how even Embraer had to start from domestic procurement before moving on to export products too. Also, cooperation with UAC on widebody aircraft is hardly an indication of COMAC lacking confidence in its own capabilities, rather it enhances strategic cooperation with Russia while reducing development time, facilitates efficient use of limited resources and enhances production scales. All of these factors are worthwhile benefits in the larger aviation market.
 
b787

b787

Captain
11/02/2015
Rollout of COMAC C919 : Safran a major partner on China’s new jetliner
Shanghai, November 2, 2015

Safran, a major engine and equipment supplier on COMAC's new C919, was on hand at the rollout of China's first mainline commercial jet today in Shanghai. Attending the rollout ceremony were Ma Kai, Vice Prime Minister of the People's Republic of China, Jin Zhuanglong, Chairman of the Board COMAC, He Dongfeng, General Manager of COMAC, Jean-Paul Ebanga, President and CEO of CFM International, and Jean-Luc Doublet, Safran's head of commercial airplane programs in China, along with representatives of other program partners. CFM International is a 50/50 joint company between Snecma (Safran) and GE.

Safran supplies the complete propulsion system on the C919. In addition to the LEAP engine from CFM, this system includes the nacelle and thrust reverser, manufactured by Nexcelle, a joint venture between Safran (Aircelle) and GE (Middle River Aircraft Systems). In 2009, COMAC became the first customer for the new LEAP engine, successor to the best-selling CFM56, because of its high reliability design and the incorporation of a latest-generation nacelle. The LEAP engine has now recorded 9,600 orders worldwide, including more than 1,000 for the C919.

Safran also supplies the electrical wiring interconnection system (EWIS) for this aircraft, through Shanghai SAIFEI Aviation EWIS Manufacturing Co. Ltd., a joint venture founded in 2012 by Safran (Labinal Power Systems) and Shanghai Aircraft Manufacturing Co. (COMAC).

"Within a few years China should be the world aviation leader, in terms of airport capacity and the number of aircraft in service," said Jean-Luc Doublet. "So we are very proud to be a major partner on the C919, and to take part in this landmark event, which is highly symbolic not only for the Chinese aircraft industry, but also for Safran, since COMAC was the first aircraft manufacturer to choose the LEAP engine."

Safran has been present in China for 100 years, and over the last four decades it has created a number of partnerships with major players in the Chinese aviation industry, including AVIC and COMAC. Today, more than half of all mainline jets in China are powered by the CFM56, with over 3,900 of these engines in service or on order. Safran also supplies the engines and autopilots for more than half of all helicopters used in the country. At the same time, some 40% of the commercial airplanes in China use landing gear or brakes from Safran, which also provides biometric identification equipment and explosive detection systems for checked luggage to Chinese airports. Safran now has 20 entities and more than 1,800 people operating in China.
Click to expand...
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 
b787

b787

Captain
4wUEAtn.png

1ehmLb4.png
 
Last edited:
broadsword

broadsword

Brigadier
Ok, let's get real.

Most of the orders came from within China. And so will future orders. China will be the proving ground (or rather the sky) for its safety for years to come. Foreign orders will come from small carriers or Third World countries that need attractive financing if the sales of China's other aircraft are any indication. I don't think COMAC is under the illusion that enquiries will come from Emirates or Singapore Airlines anytime soon. This is Captain Obvious speaking, but we don't need to be drilled on these facts.
 
tphuang

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
technically, emirates and singapore airlines don't operate short haul single aisle airliner like a320 and b737, so they would have no requirement for c919
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top