Civilian Aviation Technology

ARJ-21's second prototype made the first flight today.

I think you guys also already know about the first Chinese assembled A320 made it's first flight a few days ago.

china will build its own engine for its large aircraft

according to the official cctv news, Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC) announces it will hire 800-1000 professionals to develop the engine that will power china's large aircraft, which is scheduled to fly in 2014. three engine manufacturers including P&W have been selected as suppliers.

the following is a report about china's first large aircraft

First jumbo jet to take off in 2014


China's first jumbo jet is expected to make its maiden flight in 2014 and get the Certificate of Airworthiness in 2016, said a senior executive from Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC) on Wednesday.

Zhang Hongbiao, who is in charge of the science and technology department of AVIC told reporters that the program of developing China's own jumbo jet has gone smoothly up until now and the plane may make its long-expected maiden voyage five years from now.

Zhang said there will be many tests on the aircraft and so it will take a relatively long time before the jumbo jet can get the Certificate of Airworthiness, a permit for mass production. Asked by reporters whether the key parts and components of the homemade jumbo jet will be imported, Zhang replied that airplanes made by Boeing, Airbus and the plane engines of General Electric (GE) and Pratt and Whitney (P&W) all have made-in-China parts.

"We welcome those powerful transnational corporations to take part in the co-bidding in terms of commercial aircraft," Zhang was quoted as saying., adding many companies had expressed interest in cooperating. But the China partnership will possess the intellectual property rights since "it is our own plane", he noted.

Feng Peide, also a senior executive of AVIC and member of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference, China's top political advisory body, said it is impossible for the engines and all airborne equipment to be all made by foreign countries.

Chief designer of the jumbo plane Wu Guanghui had previously said that they will use foreign engines in the first phase of the research but homemade engines will be developed simultaneously with the aircraft.

This January, AVIC Commercial Aircraft Engine Co (ACAE) was set up in Shanghai. It aims to provide engines for the homemade jumbo jet in order to wean from its reliance on foreign companies. Established in the commercial hub of Shanghai last May, COMAC‘s project of developing China's first large passenger aircraft is an ambitious objective. It has a registered capital of 19 billion yuan ($2.78 billion), with the State-owned Assets Supervision and Administration Commission as the biggest shareholder

The first home-made jumbo jet is already named C919, with C representing China and also the first letter of the abbreviation for Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China, Ltd. The first "9" in the name implies "forever" in Chinese culture, while "19" means the first jumbo jet produced by China will have 190 seats, according to chief designer Wu Guanghui.

In an earlier report, Wu said the China-made large passenger aircraft will eventually compete with Airbus and Boeing in the international market.

Jumbo jets having about 150 seats account for 70 percent to 80 percent of world demand for civilian passenger aircraft now and the trend will continue in the following two decades. It is estimated China will need about 1,400 such aircraft in the next 20 years, whereas the demand in world market will exceed 20,000.

Zhang Hongbiao also disclosed to reporters that AVIC will sign an agreement with its Russian counterpart to jointly develop an advanced large helicopter. Russia's Mi-26 helicopter played an important role in the rescue work of last year's May 12 earthquake in southwest China. Currently, China is lacking large helicopters which are helpful for disaster relief work and putting out forest fires.

Re: china will build its own engine for its large aircraft

Thats a lot of ambition. Will they be able to deliver?...

Re: china will build its own engine for its large aircraft

I found it amusing that the Chinese used the term "Jumbo Jet" for large planes with 190 seats. That is more like a seat capacity for a medium size commercial jets.

Shouldn't jumbo jets term be applied for planes like 747 with at least 300 seat capacities?

It seems that the Chinese still haven't learnt their lesson, they are starting the engine development at the same time as the aircraft. A common trend in Chinese aviation industry in the past 40 years is that engines are developed at the same time as the aircrafts they are intended for, and the progress of aircraft would inevitably be delayed because the engine couldn't be delivered on time as engine development takes much longer than the rest of the plane, and the delay often cause the cancellation of the entire aircraft. With aircraft is cancelled, the matching engines would also be cancelled. After a few years, a new aircraft design comes along, the cycle repeats.

Re: china will build its own engine for its large aircraft

I have no confidence in China's civilian aviation industry at all. Given how the bureaucrats there like to take short cuts, no risk and have no imagination, I think this 190 seats plane will most likely be a stretch of that DC8-clone ARJ-21.

And yes, calling it "jumbo" or "large aircraft" is pretty ridiculous.

King_Comm said:

It seems that the Chinese still haven't learnt their lesson, they are starting the engine development at the same time as the aircraft. A common trend in Chinese aviation industry in the past 40 years is that engines are developed at the same time as the aircrafts they are intended for, and the progress of aircraft would inevitably be delayed because the engine couldn't be delivered on time as engine development takes much longer than the rest of the plane, and the delay often cause the cancellation of the entire aircraft. With aircraft is cancelled, the matching engines would also be cancelled. After a few years, a new aircraft design comes along, the cycle repeats.

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Could that have anything to do with their management/decision making process, therefore top down and deferring to ones seniors, leaving little room for a younger talentented engineering manager to move.If it is I wonder if it permeats through all aspects of the system.?

China names first jumbo jet C919, to take off in 8 years

BEIJING, March 6 (Xinhua)-- China has named its first home-made jumbo jet C919, which will take off in around eight years, its chief designer Wu Guanghui said on Friday.

"C represents China as well as COMAC, the abbreviation for Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China, Ltd," said Wu, who is also the deputy general manager of COMAC, the manufacturer of C919.

"The name also reflects our determination to compete in the international market for jumbo jet. C919 comes after Airbus and Boeing, so you will have ABC in the aviation industry," said Wu, apolitical advisor who is here attending the annual session of 11thNational Committee of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference.

The first 9 in the name implies forever in Chinese culture, while 19 means the first jumbo jet produced by China will have 190seats, he said.

Wu said that his company will choose suppliers of engines, airborne equipment, and materials through international bidding, and will encourage foreign suppliers to enter into partnership with Chinese manufacturers.

"We will choose foreign-manufactured products like engines at the beginning phase, but we will also independently do the research and manufacturing work at the same time," noted Wu.

The Shanghai-based COMAC was set up in May, 2008 after approval in early 2007 by the State Council, China's Cabinet. It has a registered capital of 19 billion yuan (2.78 billion U.S. dollars), with the State-owned Assets Supervision and Administration Commission as the biggest shareholder.

Wu said the jumbo jet project now involves 47 institutions from China and abroad, and that the preliminary general technical design plan and commercial feasibility study have been completed.

King_Comm said:

It seems that the Chinese still haven't learnt their lesson, they are starting the engine development at the same time as the aircraft. A common trend in Chinese aviation industry in the past 40 years is that engines are developed at the same time as the aircrafts they are intended for, and the progress of aircraft would inevitably be delayed because the engine couldn't be delivered on time as engine development takes much longer than the rest of the plane, and the delay often cause the cancellation of the entire aircraft. With aircraft is cancelled, the matching engines would also be cancelled. After a few years, a new aircraft design comes along, the cycle repeats.

Click to expand...

not exactly, three different engines will be used, china will develop one. it's highly unlikely that china will develop a new engine from scratch on its own in five years, it may establish a joint venture with a foreign partner, it seems to me the natural choice is RR. like the J-10, the new jet will fly on a foreign engine first.

LesAdieux said:

not exactly, three different engines will be used, china will develop one. it's highly unlikely that china will develop a new engine from scratch on its own in five years, it may establish a joint venture with a foreign partner, it seems to me the natural choice is RR. like the J-10, the new jet will fly on a foreign engine first.

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I doubt Rolls Royce would like to be blacklisted by the US government to assist the Chinese on a military project. Too much is at stake for Rolls Royce if they did.