Civilian Aviation Technology

While China could have its own market to fall back on when it comes to commuter aircraft as the ARJ21, if the Russian experience is anything to go by , success in the jumbo class is no way guaranteed.I saw a program on how the Russian civilian aviation aircraft construction was a shambles with next to no international interest,and only a very small local interest in its latest offerings, despite the latest offering by Sukhoi being a very respectable craft.

bladerunner said:

While China could have its own market to fall back on when it comes to commuter aircraft as the ARJ21, if the Russian experience is anything to go by , success in the jumbo class is no way guaranteed.I saw a program on how the Russian civilian aviation aircraft construction was a shambles with next to no international interest,and only a very small local interest in its latest offerings, despite the latest offering by Sukhoi being a very respectable craft.

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china is determined to commit big money for the project, and china's deep pocket will make the difference. russia doesn't have enough money to keep their civilian programmes lasting long enough to be business viable. airbus didn't make a penny in the first twenty years, france and germany offered cheap credit to keep the airbus afloat.

Not just first 20 years. Even today, Airbus & Boeing continues to receive massive government subsidies in various forms.

LesAdieux said:

china is determined to commit big money for the project, and china's deep pocket will make the difference. russia doesn't have enough money to keep their civilian programmes lasting long enough to be business viable. airbus didn't make a penny in the first twenty years, france and germany offered cheap credit to keep the airbus afloat.

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Ah, but Airbus was originally a consortium of airplane manufacturers with very strong histories of manufacturing innovative and successful aircraft. Different story.

Pointblank said:

Ah, but Airbus was originally a consortium of airplane manufacturers with very strong histories of manufacturing innovative and successful aircraft. Different story.

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Still, one needs start from somewhere, so that's something to be dealt with in any event.

montyp165 said:

Still, one needs start from somewhere, so that's something to be dealt with in any event.

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The original companies were among the foremost innovators in aviation in their respective countries.

That doesn't make the fact that Airbus and Boeing receive massive government subsides any less true.

Civilian aviation business has a lot of politics involved. One extra competitor means other players have less shares of their pie, and losing some shares of the pie means a lot of people's interests are hurt. And whenever there are interests, there are politics. Politics can come in the form of subsides. But when politics deal with non-western players such as the Russians or Chinese, things will get nasty. This is one of the reasons why Russian planes don't sell.

In what way can they hurt the sells of Russian and Chinese aircraft? For a commercial aircraft to fly in one country, the aircraft must be certified in that country. So, when China finally gets its fully indigenous airliner up in the air, expect the west to throw in a lot of unsatisfiable certification demands, such as "jet engine under full power must be perfectly safe for infants who are crawling directly in front of the intake".

I might be exaggerating, but you get the point.

Engineer said:

That doesn't make the fact that Airbus and Boeing receive massive government subsides any less true.

Civilian aviation business has a lot of politics involved. One extra competitor means other players have less shares of their pie, and losing some shares of the pie means a lot of people's interests are hurt. And whenever there are interests, there are politics. Politics can come in the form of subsides. But when politics deal with non-western players such as the Russians or Chinese, things will get nasty. This is one of the reasons why Russian planes don't sell.

In what way can they hurt the sells of Russian and Chinese aircraft? For a commercial aircraft to fly in one country, the aircraft must be certified in that country. So, when China finally gets its fully indigenous airliner up in the air, expect the west to throw in a lot of unsatisfiable certification demands, such as "jet engine under full power must be perfectly safe for infants who are crawling directly in front of the intake".

I might be exaggerating, but you get the point.

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getting certification for the C919 in america and europe will be tricky. the great concorde was literally killed by the american congress, no mercy is expected, but the situation is different, by the time the C919 is up in the air, china along with america will be one of the two predominent countries in air transportation, bargain chip is proportional to market share, you can simply put infants in front of their engine as well.

GE says confident of winning China engine contract
By Jacqueline Wong Jacqueline Wong
1 hr 32 mins ago

SHANGHAI (Reuters) – General Electric Co (GE.N) is confident about winning contracts to supply engines for China's big aircraft project, the company's China chief said on Monday.

GE Aviation, an engine supplier for Boeing (BA.N), also provides engines to China's first self-developed regional jet ARJ21, which completed its first test flight late last year.

"The fact that we are on the first plane...gives us confidence. But the thing that gives me most confidence is that I am very sure of our aircraft engine product. I think we have the best product," GE's China President Mark Norbom told Reuters on the sidelines of an industry event.

Beijing had made public an ambitious goal to manufacture large passenger jets with more than 150 seats and freighters capable of handling more than 100 tonnes of cargo to take on Boeing and Airbus (EAD.PA) (EAD.DE).

So far, the initial design of the jet, code named C919, has been completed. But the Commercial Aircraft Corp of China (CACC), which developed the jet, still needs to make major breakthroughs in engine technologies and advanced composite materials, the state-owned CCTV said in May.

To make sure that the jet is available for delivery in 2016, CACC may use foreign-made engines to power the jet, it added.

Pratt & Whitney, a unit of United Technologies (UTX.N), is also among the contestants to supply engines to C919, a company executive told Reuters previously.

China is expected to pick suppliers for its in-house designed big jet in the coming months, Norbom said.

(Reporting by Fang Yan and Jacqueline Wong)


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I think when Chinese jets start flying there will be so many countrys wanting to order, becasue right now if u are refused from Western countrys u have no other opition but soon there will be one from China

Africa, South America and so many other countrys like Iran and Venuzuela will buy from China who have $$$ but no source, China will provide a 2nd opition and unlike Russia who are very unreliable Chinese will suceed because they work harder and faster and cheaper plus China has huge resources even more than USA