Chinese Trainer Aircraft (JL-8, JL-9, JL-10 (L-15), etc.)

lcloo

lcloo

Captain
Semi-Lobster said:
The Zambian L-15Z is a subsonic, non-afterburning variant of the L-15 as confirmed with this interview with the Zambian Air Force. It does appear to have some sort of radar from photos posted here, but I do not believe anybody has been able to confirm which radar it is other than compatibility with PL-5EII all aspect WVRAAM as well any many guided air-to-surface munitions.

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The inital 6 jets order for Zambia are L-15A with non-afterburning engine and no radar. It was reported that they made a follow up order for another 6 L-15A and 12 L-15B.

I cannot clear your doubt that L-15B with radar and afterburner are still at prototype stage of development. AAD 2016 is 5 years ago, many things have moved on.
 
Semi-Lobster

Semi-Lobster

Junior Member
lcloo said:
The inital 6 jets order for Zambia are L-15A with non-afterburning engine and no radar. It was reported that they made a follow up order for another 6 L-15A and 12 L-15B.

I cannot clear your doubt that L-15B with radar and afterburner are still at prototype stage of development. AAD 2016 is 5 years ago, many things have moved on.
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The alleged follow up order, (which I DO think is real, the Zambians seem to really like their new advanced trainer) has not been delivered yet and therefore we can't exactly attest to their capabilities. The only L-15 variant I am talking about are the L-15Z aircraft currently in service with the Zambian Air Force, not the L-15B. As I mentioned before, all signs appear to show evidence and markings for a small radar in existing L-15Zs and non-afterburning engines, that's all. The L-15B is a different variant that has not been seen 'in the wild' for some time unfortunately.
Grupo2 said:
Could be SY-80 with scanner removed for servicing? Comparison with pic below of JL-10 with radar seems to show this could be the case?
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Sabredog

New Member
Registered Member
Semi-Lobster said:
The alleged follow up order, (which I DO think is real, the Zambians seem to really like their new advanced trainer) has not been delivered yet and therefore we can't exactly attest to their capabilities. The only L-15 variant I am talking about are the L-15Z aircraft currently in service with the Zambian Air Force, not the L-15B. As I mentioned before, all signs appear to show evidence and markings for a small radar in existing L-15Zs and non-afterburning engines, that's all. The L-15B is a different variant that has not been seen 'in the wild' for some time unfortunately.
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No pongo dudas de las bondades del L 15 como entrenador. En el caso de Uruguay necesitamos un entrenador de armas o un cada ligero como el Leonardo M336 FA, L-159 Alca, de los cuales hay pocos volando, pero esta probado en combate, o FA-50 Coreano. Aparatos estos que ya tienen un desarrollo muy avanzado y como dije algunos de ellos probados en combate.
En este tema está también el tema económico de compra y financiación a futuro, que en este sentido la industria China de Aviación apoyadas con su gobierno detrás superan a mi entender a los demás posibles oferentes. Hay que poner muchas cosas en la balanza. Aspectos técnicos, que para mí serían los que deben de primar y aspectos, financieros que es donde juega la politica y que lamentablemente no es la mejor consejera en estos temas.
 
Semi-Lobster

Semi-Lobster

Junior Member
This came up earlier in this thread when I was speaking to Grufo about this subject, the L-15 is an advanced, modern twin seat LIFT aircraft but is that REALLY what Uruguay needs? One option that should be mentioned is the JL-9/FTC-2000. The JL-9 and its most recent variant, the JL-9G/FTC-2000G is a low cost, simpler twin seat LIFT trainer also used by the PLAAF. Equipped with a WP-13F turbojet engine, the JL-9 is capable of supersonic speeds. While based on the old JJ-7 trainer, the redesigned radome has allowed several different combat radar to be equipped with the aircraft including ones compatible with the SD-10 (export PL-12) BVR missile. While the L-15 is certainly the more advanced training platform, maybe a simpler and cheaper option is what a small country like Uruguay might want if the role of the aircraft is air policing rather than air defence?
 
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Sabredog

New Member
Registered Member
Semi-Lobster said:
Esto surgió anteriormente en este hilo cuando estaba hablando con Grufo sobre este tema, el L-15 es un avión LIFT avanzado y moderno con dos asientos, pero ¿es eso REALMENTE lo que Uruguay necesita? Una opción que debe mencionarse es el JL-9 / FTC-2000. El JL-9 y su variante más reciente, el JL-9G / FTC-2000G es un entrenador LIFT de asiento doble más simple y de bajo costo que también utiliza la PLAAF. Equipado con un motor turborreactor WP-13F, el JL-9 es capaz de alcanzar velocidades supersónicas. Si bien se basa en el antiguo entrenador JJ-7, el radomo rediseñado ha permitido equipar varios radares de combate diferentes con la aeronave, incluidos los compatibles con el misil BVR SD-10 (exportar PL-12). Si bien el L-15 es sin duda la plataforma de formación más avanzada,
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Semi-Lobster said:
This came up earlier in this thread when I was speaking to Grufo about this subject, the L-15 is an advanced, modern twin seat LIFT aircraft but is that REALLY what Uruguay needs? One option that should be mentioned is the JL-9/FTC-2000. The JL-9 and its most recent variant, the JL-9G/FTC-2000G is a low cost, simpler twin seat LIFT trainer also used by the PLAAF. Equipped with a WP-13F turbojet engine, the JL-9 is capable of supersonic speeds. While based on the old JJ-7 trainer, the redesigned radome has allowed several different combat radar to be equipped with the aircraft including ones compatible with the SD-10 (export PL-12) BVR missile. While the L-15 is certainly the more advanced training platform, maybe a simpler and cheaper option is what a small country like Uruguay might want if the role of the aircraft is air policing rather than air defence?
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El gobierno Uruguayo tiene 4 propuestas a estudio, una de ellas el L-15. En el 2016, si no estoy equivocado, pilotos de la FAU, por invitación del fabricante, volaron el L-15 y quedaron muy complacidos con las capacidades del avión. En cuanto al JL-9, se que fué exportado a Sudán. Es más avión de combate que el L15 pero tecnológicamente bastante más atrasado, si hablamos de diseño de célula, que como usted bien dice, está basado en el JJ7, con posibilidad de acomodar aviónica avanzada. Si comparamos ambos aparatos, creo que el L-15 posee mayor capacidad de desarrollo a futuro y también supongo que ese factor, entre otros a de haber primado para elegir al L15 y no al JL-9.
 
Grupo2

Grupo2

New Member
Registered Member
Semi-Lobster said:
This came up earlier in this thread when I was speaking to Grufo about this subject, the L-15 is an advanced, modern twin seat LIFT aircraft but is that REALLY what Uruguay needs? One option that should be mentioned is the JL-9/FTC-2000. The JL-9 and its most recent variant, the JL-9G/FTC-2000G is a low cost, simpler twin seat LIFT trainer also used by the PLAAF. Equipped with a WP-13F turbojet engine, the JL-9 is capable of supersonic speeds. While based on the old JJ-7 trainer, the redesigned radome has allowed several different combat radar to be equipped with the aircraft including ones compatible with the SD-10 (export PL-12) BVR missile. While the L-15 is certainly the more advanced training platform, maybe a simpler and cheaper option is what a small country like Uruguay might want if the role of the aircraft is air policing rather than air defence?
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JL-9 on paper does have some things in its favour for the Uruguayan requirements but it does not appear to be a consideration as far as we know.

The working assumption among defence wonks and the government in Uruguay is that LIFT makes sense in terms of cost - in other words most single seat combat aircraft available on the market (eg surplus M2000 or F-16) appear to be beyond the small operating budget that the Uruguayan Air Force has to with with. Of course there are any number of lower cost new types ( Gripen, JF-17) that could, again, on paper be adequate but cost if purchase and operation seems to keep bringing us back to LIFT.

No question L-15 in some configuration is seriously being considered and no doubt that China would jump at the chance to get into another Latin American defence market.

Time will tell
 
lcloo

lcloo

Captain
L-15 would be useful if in future Uruguay is going for a fighter jet since it can be used in dual role of a trainer as well as a light strike fighter jet. On the other hand, if there is no such plan in next 10 to 15 year, then FTC-2000G would be a better choice than L-15 as FTC-2000G is more like a lighter fighter than a trainer jet.

FTC-2000G is larger than FTC-2000 aka JL-9, and is more capable with better radar and capable of carrying BYR radar like SD-10 with 70km range and guided air to ground missile.

The first export of FTC-2000G to a South East Asian country is expected to be delivered in early 2022.
 
by78

by78

General
K-8NG being marketed at Dubai Airshow.

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