Chinese Trainer Aircraft (JL-8, JL-9, JL-10 (L-15), etc.)

coolieno99

Junior Member
Re: JL-15 and other trainers

JL-15 flight simulator:

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credit: ASAT @ militaryphotos.net
 

Semi-Lobster

Junior Member
Re: JL-15 and other trainers

I've always wondered about the designations 'JL-15' and 'L-15'. Since when and why did they drop the 'Jian'?
 

Semi-Lobster

Junior Member
Re: JL-15 and other trainers

Because they realized it had no marketing future as a fighter?

But the Yak-130 which was developed more or less alongside the L-15 is light attack capable and its not as if the Guizhou JL-9 is more or a 'fighter' trainer than the L-15. I think I've read a few articles as well stating that the L-15 may be developed with light attack capabilities.
 

Semi-Lobster

Junior Member
Re: JL-15 and other trainers

I think the key to the success fo the L-15 is the proper marketing for exports. In a couple of years there will be a glut of different 'advanced' fighter trainers on the market, infact we're already seeing that now. For the L-15 to be successful, it has to have an impressive list of incetives that country like Russia or European nations cannot match. If we take the Aero L-159 for example, we can see that while there is possibly a market for small multi-role attack aircraft with AtoA capabilities aeasy conversion to an advanced trainer, time and time again it still lost contracts in Venezuela, and then South Africa, Greece, Nigeria, Georgia, Indonesia, Bolivia, Colombia etc., not a single sale. Now how could you possibly have such a run of bad luck with such an advanced aircraft and such a proven company like Aero who have been building advanced trainers for decades? Even losing in the Greek case, to the prop powered Texan II? In my opinion, because there are so many advanced trainers on the market, one must integrate and simplify maintenance, weapons systems and controls with existing aircraft to tailor the aircraft to the buyers need, you have to offer a package with the weapons system, not to gouge the tar out of the customer like France has been trying to do with the Rafale, but to offer, say limited TOT, flight instructors, knock-down kits, a promise of a steady supply of spare parts, like what China has offered with the very successful JL-8 and if need be, holistic, economic support, especially with countries in Africa who are willing to refurbish their entire military in some cases.
 

Pointblank

Senior Member
Re: JL-15 and other trainers

I think the key to the success fo the L-15 is the proper marketing for exports. In a couple of years there will be a glut of different 'advanced' fighter trainers on the market, infact we're already seeing that now. For the L-15 to be successful, it has to have an impressive list of incetives that country like Russia or European nations cannot match. If we take the Aero L-159 for example, we can see that while there is possibly a market for small multi-role attack aircraft with AtoA capabilities aeasy conversion to an advanced trainer, time and time again it still lost contracts in Venezuela, and then South Africa, Greece, Nigeria, Georgia, Indonesia, Bolivia, Colombia etc., not a single sale. Now how could you possibly have such a run of bad luck with such an advanced aircraft and such a proven company like Aero who have been building advanced trainers for decades? Even losing in the Greek case, to the prop powered Texan II? In my opinion, because there are so many advanced trainers on the market, one must integrate and simplify maintenance, weapons systems and controls with existing aircraft to tailor the aircraft to the buyers need, you have to offer a package with the weapons system, not to gouge the tar out of the customer like France has been trying to do with the Rafale, but to offer, say limited TOT, flight instructors, knock-down kits, a promise of a steady supply of spare parts, like what China has offered with the very successful JL-8 and if need be, holistic, economic support, especially with countries in Africa who are willing to refurbish their entire military in some cases.

I think there needs to be a distinction as to the roles being played, the turbo-prop powered T-6 Texan II is a basic trainer; it is meant to be a docile, easy to fly airplane that is economical to teach basic airmanship and flying skills. You don't need a more expensive to own and operate jet powered airplane to do this. If a pilot is selected to fly a jet fighter, you need a advanced trainer that is capable of mimicking the performance of a high performance jet fighter.

I will point to the very successful
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(NFTC) private program; Bombardier, the project manager, owns a fleet of T-6 Texan II (designated CT-155 Harvard II) for basic flight training, and for those selected to become jet fighter pilots, they move into the BAe Hawk 115. Not only is Canada a customer, but the air forces of Denmark, UK, Singapore, Italy, Hungary, UAE, Germany, Finland, France, and Sweden are also participants.
 

Semi-Lobster

Junior Member
Re: JL-15 and other trainers

I think there needs to be a distinction as to the roles being played, the turbo-prop powered T-6 Texan II is a basic trainer; it is meant to be a docile, easy to fly airplane that is economical to teach basic airmanship and flying skills. You don't need a more expensive to own and operate jet powered airplane to do this. If a pilot is selected to fly a jet fighter, you need a advanced trainer that is capable of mimicking the performance of a high performance jet fighter.

I will point to the very successful
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(NFTC) private program; Bombardier, the project manager, owns a fleet of T-6 Texan II (designated CT-155 Harvard II) for basic flight training, and for those selected to become jet fighter pilots, they move into the BAe Hawk 115. Not only is Canada a customer, but the air forces of Denmark, UK, Singapore, Italy, Hungary, UAE, Germany, Finland, France, and Sweden are also participants.

The tender WAS for an intermediate to advanced fighter trainer though. It was a replacement for the T-2 Buckeye jet trainer which they replaced with a turboprop (The Texan II)
 

Pointblank

Senior Member
Re: JL-15 and other trainers

The tender WAS for an intermediate to advanced fighter trainer though. It was a replacement for the T-2 Buckeye jet trainer which they replaced with a turboprop (The Texan II)

No, from my understanding, the T-6 Texan II purchase was to replace the Cessna T-41 and T-37 fleet, while the T-2 Buckeye fleet will be replaced by a new jet trainer. I believe that the contract has yet to be awarded yet.
 

Semi-Lobster

Junior Member
Re: JL-15 and other trainers

No, from my understanding, the T-6 Texan II purchase was to replace the Cessna T-41 and T-37 fleet, while the T-2 Buckeye fleet will be replaced by a new jet trainer. I believe that the contract has yet to be awarded yet.

Milavia is saying that it was the Buckeye that got replaced by the Texan and the page was updated 5 months ago. Defense Industry daily on October said that Greece has dropped ins tender for a new advanced trainer to replace the Buckeye and instead will use its recently purchased turboprop Texan IIs for the role
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