Chinese Trainer Aircraft (JL-8, JL-9, JL-10 (L-15), etc.)

Re: JL-15 and other trainers

Semi-Lobster said:

Milavia is saying that it was the Buckeye that got replaced by the Texan and the page was updated 5 months ago. Defense Industry daily on October said that Greece has dropped ins tender for a new advanced trainer to replace the Buckeye and instead will use its recently purchased turboprop Texan IIs for the role

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Nope, that source states:

Replacement of Greece’s ancient T-2 Buckeye advanced jet trainers, which made their very last US Navy flight in 2008, is also on hold and has reportedly dropped in priority. Greece flies modern T-6B Texan II turboprop trainers, which can be armed and used for weapons training as well as intermediate to advanced flight training. Even so, they are not full lead-in fighter trainers like the Aermacchi M346, BAE Hawk Mk 128, or KAI/Lockheed T-50 jets. The question is how long the T-2s can be kept flying, and whether the HAF will end up having to use its 2-seat F-16Ds and Mirage 2000BGs as final trainers beyond its T-6Bs.

That means the tender is still out there, but they are wanting to delay making a decision.

Re: JL-15 and other trainers

Pointblank said:

Nope, that source states:

Replacement of Greece’s ancient T-2 Buckeye advanced jet trainers, which made their very last US Navy flight in 2008, is also on hold and has reportedly dropped in priority. Greece flies modern T-6B Texan II turboprop trainers, which can be armed and used for weapons training as well as intermediate to advanced flight training. Even so, they are not full lead-in fighter trainers like the Aermacchi M346, BAE Hawk Mk 128, or KAI/Lockheed T-50 jets. The question is how long the T-2s can be kept flying, and whether the HAF will end up having to use its 2-seat F-16Ds and Mirage 2000BGs as final trainers beyond its T-6Bs.

That means the tender is still out there, but they are wanting to delay making a decision.

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What I mean't to point out is that the T-2 Buckeye's role has been effectively replaced by the T-6B Texan II for the next several years, you're right though I shouldn't have outright said the tender had been dropped, just dropped in priority although I'd like to point out that the L-159 is now, not one of the aircraft listed for a new lead-in-fighter anymore so it has effectively lost ot the Texan II as the L-159s would have been ready for export immediatly as they are refrubished L-159A multi-role light fighters converted to the L-159T1 advance trainer, left over from a Czech tender that was subsequently reduced from 72 to just 24. Also I believe we are now sort of getting off topic of the L-15.

Re: JL-15 and other trainers

this is kind of interesting

Two Buyers Interested in Acquiring Grob

By Thomas Stocker
December 16, 2008
Aircraft

Grob Aerospace insolvency administrator Dr. Michael Jaffé announced today that two companies have expressed interest in taking over the German aircraft manufacturer.

The interested parties include little known H3 Aerospace from Munich, headed by Johann Heitzmann; and Chinese manufacturer Guizhou Aviation Industry Corporation (GAIC), part of the giant state group AVIC I that makes fighters, the ARJ21 regional airliner, Airbus subassemblies and many other aircraft and automotive components. Both offers are still tentative, and the winner will be selected before year-end by a creditors’ committee for further negotiations.

The bidders are interested primarily in Grob’s trainers, which provided the bulk of the company’s business in the past. Both contenders are offering around $4.5 million for the trainer business, and GAIC might offer an additional $3.5 million for the SPn after further investigation.

Piston-powered Grob basic trainers are in service with several major air forces, including the British Royal Air Force, which is interested in ordering an additional batch. At press time, the fate of the SPn business jet remains uncertain.

According to the insolvency administrator, negotiations are continuing with other interested parties, but the outlook for a seamless continuation of the SPn program is bleak.

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considering that guizhou is hongdu's main competitor in the trainer market, it looks like guizhou is trying to use this to possibly develop a competing basic trainer against hongdu's Yak-152 copy.

Re: JL-15 and other trainers

tphuang said:

this is kind of interesting

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considering that guizhou is hongdu's main competitor in the trainer market, it looks like guizhou is trying to use this to possibly develop a competing basic trainer against hongdu's Yak-152 copy.

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This seems to be heavily going in Guizhou's favour, H3 is a very small company, I don't think they can seriously beat Guizhou if Guizhou is serious enough about this deal. As we all probably know, nobody is terribly excited about Hongdu's Yak-152, there have even been criticism on this very forum about how unambitious Hongdu is not not even try to develop something as 'simple' as a turbo-prop trainer themselves. A modified Grob G-120, the same trainer used by many NATO countries though, could certainly stir up some interest. BTW This could be a good deal, there is still a market for not just basic turbo-prop trainers, which every air force needs but also in the light attack role. Iraq just bought the armed T-6B Texan II, and the Embraer EMB 314 Super Tucano has found a lot of export success in South American and even with private military contractors.

Re: JL-15 and other trainers

this is the first JL-9 delivered to PLAAF, i'm surprised that the first photo just came out now, because I thought the delivery was done earlier this year. Anyhow, here it is. Everything just seems to be a lot slower in the trainer market

Re: JL-15 and other trainers

tphuang said:

this is the first JL-9 delivered to PLAAF, i'm surprised that the first photo just came out now, because I thought the delivery was done earlier this year. Anyhow, here it is. Everything just seems to be a lot slower in the trainer market

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So far there should only be 10 JL-9s in service (all from the pre-production run) right now right? Has there been any mention of how it performs?

Re: JL-15 and other trainers

Semi-Lobster said:

So far there should only be 10 JL-9s in service (all from the pre-production run) right now right? Has there been any mention of how it performs?

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don't know, I just feel like the production for JL-9 is a lot lower than we previous thought. It sounds like PLAAF is pleased enough with it to place quite a substantial order.

Re: JL-15 and other trainers

China has planned to manufacture the two models of coaches advanced the L-15 and JL-9 in parallels, or in the end will remain with a single model?
:rofl:

Re: JL-15 and other trainers

zuhe said:

China has planned to manufacture the two models of coaches advanced the L-15 and JL-9 in parallels, or in the end will remain with a single model?
:rofl:

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Er, its probably the grammar but I'm not exactly sure what you are saying? So far the PLAAF has confirmed an order for the JL-9. The L-15 is touted as being more advanced trainer than the JL-9 but and there seems to be an unofficial competition between Guizhou and Hongdu to provide the PLAAF with a new generation of advance fighter trainers. They could choose one, or take both. With what tphuang's statement of a strong order for the JL-9 though, perhaps people calling the JL-9 inferior to the L-15 were blowing things out of proporation. The JL-9 is certainly more 'fighter like' than the small L-15 and in many ways mimics Chengdu's FC-1 fighter but has many short coming from being rushed into production and being designed to be as cheap as possible which, although helping Guizhou to beat Hongdu in gaining an order first, could actually damage its chances of gaining a substanial contract for atrainier for advanced fighter trainer for J-10 and J-11 with the PLAAF, compared to the more 'refined' L-15. My guess is probably that the PLAAF top brass thought the JL-9, with its, new large nose and overall larger size might prefer it over the L-15 as it is a completely indigenous development, compared to the L-15 which relies on the Ukraine (even though Hongdu now has a liscence for the Ukrainian engines there are probably still strings attached) and Russia for certain technologies and has more 'potential' to be upgraded from its archaic mechanical control system to an FBW one and the more powerful WP-14 Kunlun engine in the near future now that it has proved to be an airworthy design. It certainly has export potential, it could even fill a niche if modified for a single seat fighter for countries that find even the FC-1 to expensive.

Re: JL-15 and other trainers

differences between JL 9 et L15