Chinese submarines thread

[bd popeye]

Re: Chinese sub thread

:china: Yes there are lots of subs China has. The out-of-date SSNB's and SSN's and diesle powered submarines our not vary high-tech nor are then any good in a modern navy. However, the upcomming SSNB with the j-2 and MIRV with three 90KT warheads is much more robust. Also new submarine launched anti-ship missles and other weapons plus better drive systems also make the navy more modern. Diesle subs can sink incomming ships and at the same time SSN's can go anywhere. It would make sence that China would move there SSNB's to another countray to get it out of the way when battle is going on. That way they can use SLBM's if they need them after war and if they fun low or out of ships. China's SLBM's would be able to hit the U.S from the yellow sea and probably be able to hit the U.K just north of the Falken's islands. China's stealth ships are able to go for 1000's of miles because of China's oil ships that travle with then. China has a grate navy but needs more oil, Stealth and SSN ships.

Stealth ships? Just which ship(s) are you refering to? The 52c?

China's SSN's can go anywhere and sink other ships? That's news to me. So are you saying that the PLAN SSN can go undected anywhere in the world? If so please expalin and provide a link.

Just what other country would allow the PRC to base a "SSNB" in it's waters?

Canada just when did China send it's "grate" navy on a deployment of 1000's of miles? I know recently they sent some ships to train with the Pakistian Navy. Is this what you mean? Can you please provide a link for this claim? Thank you!

By the way you just can't post anything in this forum without backing it up with a link or factual information. Thanks again.

 

[MIGleader]

Re: Chinese sub thread

chinese ships(mainly 167), even the 52, have sailed around the world before. but thoise trips are more of political and national message voyages. i doubt the plan would actually deploy a fleet to fight around the world.

 

[Falstaff]

Re: Chinese sub thread

Here I have a nice little chart for you. It compares the noise levels of russian and american nuclear subs and it is from

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. It shows that the russians made great steps but guess who always was in front of them...

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@ canada:
I recently saw a documentary on discovery channel about the war in the deep during the cold war. A USN submarine captain said that they always knew where the soviet SSBN were and that they always had an american "shadow".
The thing is, a SSBN is completely useless if it can be detected. The russians and the chinese probably don't have that quiet reactor technology reducing the noise level to an SSK's level. So, canada, even if chinese submarine engineering can catch up with the russians one day (and equal decades of experience), how long do you think the chinese submarine fleet will survive in case of a war the west? Perhaps the SSK-fleet would be a pain in the ass for the USN, but the SSNs and SSBNs would cease to exist the moment that conflict started.

There is another big point here: As with every other weapon systems, a vital thing for submarines today is battlefield awareness and communication (see jane's defence weekly from september the 28th, "communication under cover"). Can anyone provide detailed information about how china intends to catch up with the west in that area?

 

[darth sidious]

Re: Chinese sub thread

Canada

where did get the idea that the Yuan can carry 156 missiles !!!!!!!:roll:

ofcourse chiina needs more stealth destoryer no need to mention that this thread is for subs not ships.

PS right now china will most likely use its subs as under water missile lunchers to counter the Japanese or american fleet not for land attack

START READING SINO DEFENCE!

 

[MIGleader]

Re: Chinese sub thread

for one mr falstaff, you seem to be very into makking assumptions
"The russians and the chinese probably don't have that quiet reactor technology reducing the noise level to an SSK's level"
says who? not a single country on earth has released tis nuclear genrator sttistics, or even allowed pictures out. its that secret.

"So, canada, even if chinese submarine engineering can catch up with the russians one day (and equal decades of experience), how long do you think the chinese submarine fleet will survive in case of a war the west?"

china is almost caught up with russia is most aspects, ahead in some cases(gas reactor, sonar sets, safety), and darn close in others. chinnah as learned alot from its former teacher, and one day will surpass it, china certainly is far behind the west, but its catching up.

"There is another big point here: As with every other weapon systems, a vital thing for submarines today is battlefield awareness and communication (see jane's defence weekly from september the 28th, "communication under cover"). Can anyone provide detailed information about how china intends to catch up with the west in that area?"

do some research. almost everyone here has knowledge of chinas advances and progress in c4I related matters.

 

[darth sidious]

Re: Chinese sub thread

Falstaff

where did you get the idea that thee russian lack noise contral this is not the 50s acording to your logic how can the russian built the Kilo or the Mike class in both case superior to their western counter part

 

[crobato]

Re: Chinese sub thread

I too am very convinced as far as sensors and quieting technologies are concerned china is some 20 years behind the US and western europe

China has been deploying subs with anecholic tiles and seven bladed skewed propellers. That does not sound like 20 years behind. That sounds much closer to on the spot. Let me add there seems to be the usual gang of suspects that could be helping the Chinese on their naval techs, mainly the Europeans.

The russians and the chinese probably don't have that quiet reactor technology reducing the noise level to an SSK's level.

So called "quiet reactor technology" is an oxymoron. Regardless if the sub is running or not, some form of coolant has to run and feed the reactors, and that always create some sort of noise. Maybe it makes less noise if it is standing still, but will definitely make a lot more noise when running. So called quiet reactor technology is some bait to create justification for expensive SSNs to offer to the Congress as to why you have to create a much more expensive nuclear sub to match the noise levels of antique SSKs.

 

[tphuang]

Re: Chinese sub thread

for one mr falstaff, you seem to be very into makking assumptions
"The russians and the chinese probably don't have that quiet reactor technology reducing the noise level to an SSK's level"
says who? not a single country on earth has released tis nuclear genrator sttistics, or even allowed pictures out. its that secret.

"So, canada, even if chinese submarine engineering can catch up with the russians one day (and equal decades of experience), how long do you think the chinese submarine fleet will survive in case of a war the west?"

china is almost caught up with russia is most aspects, ahead in some cases(gas reactor, sonar sets, safety), and darn close in others. chinnah as learned alot from its former teacher, and one day will surpass it, china certainly is far behind the west, but its catching up.

"There is another big point here: As with every other weapon systems, a vital thing for submarines today is battlefield awareness and communication (see jane's defence weekly from september the 28th, "communication under cover"). Can anyone provide detailed information about how china intends to catch up with the west in that area?"

do some research. almost everyone here has knowledge of chinas advances and progress in c4I related matters.

I don't think any country should be compared to the Russians safety wise. Their safety record has to be amongst the worst in the world. Anyhow, I did
post a link for the noise level of different USSR and American subs earlier on in this thread. The noise level of typhoon is 125 db. The proposed 094 is claimed by some to have lower noise level than that (120 db?). Even so, it's still far behind the other 3 countries will SSBN.



More interesting stuff, I found this on CDF. A picture comparing the size of PLAN and Japanese subs:

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[Falstaff]

Re: Chinese sub thread

china is almost caught up with russia is most aspects, ahead in some cases(gas reactor, sonar sets, safety), and darn close in others. chinnah as learned alot from its former teacher, and one day will surpass it, china certainly is far behind the west, but its catching up.

Dear MIGLeader, I've been reading your postings for a long time and I know you're very patriotic about china and its forces. I do agree that china will overtake russia one day as it's making huge efforts to do so while russia seems to be quite stationary.
But you have to keep in mind that there are two sides to watch: western technology doesn't stand still while china is trying to catch up, an the USA and western europe spend huge amounts of money in military research, and they do have decades of experience (don't underestimate that!!!) and outstandingly skilled engineers and shipbuilders. As an engineer in production technology I have to tell you that even in areas like welding technology china is very far behind the west.
I have a question for you: Why do you think china buys off-the-shelf equipment, e.g. your beloved Kilos? Perhaps they are the best china can get at this point, but it is the same as with other russian equipment: You buy it, when you can't afford or get western stuff. Everything else is wishful thinking.
No, china still has a long way to go, but as I said before I think it's on the right track.

do some research. almost everyone here has knowledge of chinas advances and progress in c4I related matters.

Do some research? I've already noticed this is a very common way to answer when you don't know what to say anymore. :coffee:

@crobato: No, a "quiet reactor" isn't that contradictory. As you metioned, the problem are the coolant pumps. So, the goal is to create a reactor without pumps at all. Does it ring a bell? You must have read about this in this forum, I'm sure.

 

[MIGleader]

Re: Chinese sub thread

of course western technology is advancing too, but how do you think china caught up so much in the 90s? because no technology is strictly military. western advances in computer and electronics were almost all conceded to china through trade. even a simple dell laptop yeilds technology.

china has ceased buying off the shelf equipment for the most part. its typical ofr most upstarts to buy, but within time, they can develop their own advanced tech. just look at israel.

plz do some research. trust me, i know alot more than you. ive been at this stuff for 4 years. no one likes a poster who simply doesnt do his homework.