Chinese submarines thread

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crobato

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Re: Chinese sub thread

You can compare using the Song next to it.

If the humpless sub is 094, then how would you call this current boomer then? I want to repeat again, it is not based on the Xia as it means it would be based on the Han. The similarity comes in principle, both subs are conversions of SSNs. If you look the front bow of the current boomer, see the pattern of the limber hole line then compare it to the 093. The same. Check the rear of the sub and check the limber hole line to the 093's at the same location. The same. That means the sub is using hull sections off the 093.

Lets assume hypothetically, perhaps the PLAN has decided not to give an SSBN conversion a new number like they did with the Xia. The same way 052D didn't get a new number like 055 but rather a letter. Lets assume if the PLAN changed its policy in designation. Then this boomer might be an 093X then, X being an unknown letter. Then 094 would be a totally different class altogether.

We're just discussing trivial matters of designation. I do believe that the next PLAN boomer would be a dedicated design, and it will come out sooner or later.

The Yuan for example, we are not clear of its actual designation yet. Some people believe it is 041, because every attack sub has an odd number. Others believe it is 039A, reflecting its Song origins, meaning its not the hull that counts but what's inside. The hull of the Yuan in fact, is quite different from the Song's, though there is a possibility, the shape of the Yuan is the outer hull covering an inner hull that is built like a Song's.

Lets go back to an older sub. The Ming class gets the 035 designation despite that in reality, its just an improved 033. So it's not called an 033G or 033A. Then on top of that, an improved Ming get to be called 035G, and there is apparently no 037 which would have filled the gap between the Ming and the Song.
 

Gollevainen

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Re: Chinese sub thread

For several reasons I have been bit busy outside internet and haven't got time to really familiarise myself to these new interesting boatspottings. I did ask about it from couple guys at some other forum and after from the shred of evidence I build this overall picture:

There two Google earht images which one shows two submarines at Huludao and another one shows one at Xiaopingdao. They are from different locations. There is also pictures of the two from "human perspective" and most likely the older pics from the single new SSBN shows the lone submarine at Xiaopingdao. Someone has suggested that the the lone sub is nearly ready to enter service and the twins are still fitting out.

This is what was easily to be gathered and make sense. Then there is stuff that doesen't make sense, at least when trying to cathc up whit the fast moving discussion. What are the talks about the so called "humpless" SSBN? Where that came from? Does the google earth reveal it and if it does, where?
 

crobato

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Re: Chinese sub thread

My personal view is that PLAN's admirals were deeply impressed by DCN's Le Triomphant class back in the 90's and that type 096 could bear a striking resemblance to Marine Nationale's SNLE-NG. (138 m, 14500 t dived, 16 M45/51 SLBM (6 MIRV, 8000 km), pump jet)

The French inspiration on PLAN subs have always been underestimated while the Russian inspiration is always overestimated.

Take a look at this sub. Then compare its side profile to the top sub on the second artwork which is the Han. Interesting isn't. Its rather similar.

The Song in my view is a take from the Agosta.

The 093 looks like a 688 to me, and the plane less 093 resembles the Trafalgar class which is a British sub.
 

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Violet Oboe

Junior Member
Re: Chinese sub thread

@crobato:
Probably there existed a type 037 project since the late 70's until the mid 80's but this was cancelled around '85 for financial and technical reasons (Tango lookalike?)(...catch all phrase for Deng's cutting axe policy terminating many satellite-, tanks-, missile- and obviously also sub-projects.:D).
However some elements of this project could have later reappeared in the Song...:confused:
 
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Roger604

Senior Member
Re: Chinese sub thread

Obviously, the unveiled SSN and SSBN are counterparts to one another. But the plane-less SSN is a mystery. Does it really look that much like the Type 093's we've seen? I have some doubts. It really does look more like a Trafalgar. It has such a slim profile.

There have been many rumors that Type 095 is well underway. Could this plane-less sub we see in the photo actually be the successor to the Type 093? This would also corroborate rumors that a new hump-less SSBN is launched!

The Type 093/094 program may have been done way back in 2005/2006. This would give the shipyards just enough time to build a successor SSN and SSBN for sea trials by now.
 

crobato

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Re: Chinese sub thread

Yeah I like to see a clear picture of that plane-less sub. Its a big mystery for me at the moment. Otherwise we will just keep on speculating. Either that or the original video gets released in you tube. I can setting for GE pics too. I wish there are more updates.
 

Roger604

Senior Member
Re: Chinese sub thread

Recall that the plane-less SSN was not labeled "Type 093" on the poster. It was simply labeled "New Nuclear Submarine".

At the time, we all assumed it was Type 093, but now it's not so certain! ;)
 

balance

Junior Member
Re: Chinese sub thread

I just find an article that touched on the issue of Chinese sub. This one comes from Newsmax, the infamous website that play up the CHina threat theory, except this time, it plays down (or tells the truth) Chinese sub capability, especially the type 094.
Here is the link:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Please let me know, what you guys think about this.


China Flexes Military Muscles

Wednesday, October 17, 2007 12:07 PM

By: Charles R. Smith Article Font Size




China has introduced two more nuclear ballistic missile submarines. The two subs were spotted by researchers recently while viewing Google Earth satellite images.

The two submarines join a third “JIN” or Type 94 class boat already accepted by the Chinese navy. However, these may be the only be two such submarines in service because the first submarine has returned to the ship yard for repairs after its initial sea trials earlier this year.

Each Type 94 boat was expected to be armed with 16 JL-2 long-range nuclear tipped ballistic missile. However, current photo images show that the submarine can only carry 12 such missiles.

The JL-2 missile is a modification of the Dong Feng 31 land-based ballistic missile. The JL-2 has the capability of carrying either a single three megaton H bomb warhead or three smaller 100 kiloton nuclear warheads. The JL-2 does have the range to cover most of the United States from the Type 94 operational areas in the Pacific.

The JL-2 missile has not been cleared for service so the current Chinese submarine force is serving without weaponry. At this point, only one test firing of the JL-2 from a modified test submarine has been reported, and with mixed results.

The Type 94 missile boats are not expected to enter operational service until after 2010.


It is also uncertain whether China will build any more Type 94 submarines because of problems encountered during the sea trials of the first boat. It has been reported that the Chinese were not impressed by its capability and where dismayed by the apparent ease with which it could be found.

The Chinese military has been upset for a while at Google and other international providers of satellite images. Researchers have found a number of Chinese military bases and equipment using the satellite imagery. For example, images of an underground hanger system at one airbase and an underground submarine base are both available on Google satellite.

In addition, Chinese air bases, missile sites, air defense sites, and warship construction facilities are available. These areas are generally off-limits for local viewing. China has threatened to penalize researchers who use these images of Chinese facilities. However, it is not clear how the Chinese government would enforce such charges.

What is clear from the images and from inside the People’s Liberation Army is the fact that China is having problems equipping its military forces despite increased budgets. For example, China recently put the new Z10 helicopter gunship on display. According to the Chinese army, eight prototypes of the Z10 have been built so far.

China was able to put together the Z10 with a little help for cash. Reportedly, Italian manufacturer Agusta/Westland provided consulting services, and may have participated in the direct design and construction of the first Z10. Italy, of course, is not talking about the deal so all information on their participation is currently secret.

However, the Z10 is powered by Canadian engines — two Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6C-67Cs. The Canadian firm says it exported the engines to China with the understanding that they were for a new civilian transport helicopter. The result has led Pratt & Whitney Canada to not sell any more engines to China.

Because of the engine export ban, the Z10 cannot enter mass production until China develops a suitable replacement for the engine. Chinese turbine engine development and production is notoriously slow.

The lack of suitable engines has held up several Chinese military programs. The Chinese made WS-10A jet engine has been under development for its J-10 and J-11 jet fighter for almost a decade. The WS-10A has not been successful and is difficult to maintain.

The engine — a local copy of the Russian Saturn AL-31 engine that powers the famed Sukhoi SU-27 — was unable to be perfected in time for the Chinese air force J-10 strike fighter. As a result, the current production of J-10 fighters is limited to the number of Saturn AL-31 engines that can be bought from Russia.

In addition, lack of a suitable engine is limited the Chinese military export of the FC-1 fighter to Pakistan. The FC-1 has also been crippled by a dependency on Russia to export the necessary engines. The FC-1 is powered by the RD-93 engine, a revised version of the power plant on the MiG-29 Fulcrum.

The contract to supply over 100 RD-93 engines has been up in the air for months as India has protested the exports to Moscow. Moscow, well aware that India is its largest military customer, is likely to limit the export of the RD-93 to a trickle, thus crippling the FC-1 project and the Pakistani air force.

China is determined to end Western export bans of advanced military technology. The Chinese effort to lobby the U.S. and Europe to end sanctions is an ongoing process.

For example, China is seeking to join the International Space station again despite the bad publicity involved with the 2007 anti-satellite test. Chinese officials expressed their desires during a recent news conference.

“We hope to take part in activities related to the international space station,” stated Li Xueyong, a vice minister of science and technology. “If I am not mistaken, this program has 16 countries currently involved and we hope to be the 17th partner.”

U.S. opposition to the Chinese participation is underscored by the fact that China launched its Jan. 2007 test that destroyed an aging weather satellite. The resulting debris has endangered both U.S. and Russian manned space flights to the space station.



© 2007 Newsmax. All rights reserved.
 

crobato

Colonel
VIP Professional
Re: Chinese sub thread

Typically Newsmax stories should be regarded as something worth wiping your rear end after you perform your bodily functions and flushed down with the rest of the material. The article is so wrong in so many ways its not worth commenting.
 
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