Chinese submarines thread

[tphuang]

Re: Chinese sub thread

^ Nice pics!

Comparing the earlier photograph of the docked SSBN, it looks like this is the same model. But you imply they are different (92G versus 94). Where's the difference?

Notice those slots on the side of the hump. There are six of them. Are they some sort of vents for the JL-2 launch cannisters? If so, that means each 94 carries 12 missiles.

I wonder if the newly declassified status of 093 and 094 means they have finished building the last of them and have transferred assets to 095 and 096. It seems that way from the info given by the big shrimps on Chinese BBS.

nice observation, didn't even see those slots, I'm actually talking about the picture that we saw last year.

The one that we compared to the original 406 and noticed they were different.
If you look at that picture, the length of the sail is about half the length from the end of the hump to the tail. Whereas for this new picture, the the sail is about 1/4 of the length from end of the hump to the tail. Either way, this new 094 looks larger than the previous boomers and also more stealthy (imo).

To Crolick,
nobody knows, really.

 

[Roger604]

Re: Chinese sub thread

You're right, in the photograph that came out late last year, the tail part is shorter than in this new photograph we have.

But I think it is because old photograph was PS'd. For some reason, the tail section was altered.

Look at the tail rudder / fin. It is almost straight in the new photograph, but significantly more slanted in the old one.

I think both photographs show the same variant of Type 094, but the older photograph was altered.

 

[crobato]

Re: Chinese sub thread

I think the photo last year is 094, at least the sub that was first sighted in Xiapingdao. The angles of the two pictures make a length comparison impossible because a proper length comparison means that the sub must be perfectly perpendicular to the photographer's camera which both pictures are not.

Also the sub in Dalian is actually slightly shorter than the new sub here. The new sub has the appendage on top of the rear fin, which makes it likely to be the second sub in the current GE Huludao picture. The Huludao 094s appear to be slightly longer than the one in Dalian suggesting continuous changes.

I changed my position that last years pic is not an 092G but an 094. In any case, Xia 406 is in the Qingdao dock getting a major refit, and with that it becomes 092G (SSGN, new nuclear powerplant, new screw, new sensors).

While retired, there is no evidence that 401 and 402 were actually scrapped. They may be stored or be later converted to 091G later on.

The 093 here in the last picture appears to be taken at the same time and place as the 094. There should be one or two 093s in Hainan, so I don't know if there are other 093s left in Qingdao which I think this picture is. If the 094 with the appendage is the one in Huludao in the May 3, 2007 Google Earth pic, then the sub has already moved to Qingdao where this photo was taken. Its deeper in the water line now indicating that the sub is fully fitted out and operational.

I am still looking for an independent confirmation or picture of the plane less 093 sub that was seen in the PLA 80th Anniversary exhibit. The picture isn't just a picture, it was a rolling video of the sub. So far all the 093s we have seen got the diving planes in the sail. But still pictures of that video is very hazy. I like to see the original video go into youtube or have an independent picture to confirm this as an 093G.

Editing adding another 093 pic.

 

[Roger604]

Re: Chinese sub thread

About the lengths of the subs. Comparing the Dalian and Huludao subs, it appears that the total length including both the "body" and the "fins" that are visible are the same length. But comparing just the body alone, the Dalian sub is shorter.

My conclusion is that we can't conclude anything about the relative lengths of the Dalian and Huludao subs. It may just be that the Dalian sub is lower in the water so some of the body is hidden underneath. But if the Dalian sub is shorter, that means it has a longer fin, since the total length of the two are equal.

I'm inclined to think that the Dalian and Huludao subs are the same length.

And about this new picture, it also appears that any discrepancy in length is an artifact of the angle of the photograph. They are probably identical.

Crobato, what do you think about the 6 slits on the sides of the hump? Are they related to the missile cannisters? Do they imply there are 12 missiles per Type 094?

 

[crobato]

Re: Chinese sub thread

Its not really unusual for follow up subs of the same class to be slightly longer than the first ship or earlier ship batches. You can see that with various Russian and US subs and you can see that with the Han class and the Kilo class. One of the reasons for this is a design adjustment to allow for more sound insulation of the engine section. There is certainly plenty of precedent why a short change in length can happen.

I tend to think that the slight difference in length may also be due to one sub higher and lower in the water, the Dalian sub is fully fitted, operational and thus sinks deeper in the water line than the Huludao sub. Also, it appears that one of the subs have an appendage on the tail which makes the sub look longer.

The six slits on the side of the hump are related to the missile cannisters, and so yes, there are 12 missiles on the Type 094. As a note the Julang 2 is considerably bigger than the Julang 1 and size means more range. SSBNs carrying the second generation of SLBMs have to be much bigger and heavier because the SLBMs have grown a lot in size.

Jin class is actually quite small for an SSBN if its diving displacement is about 9 to 10,000mt. British, US and Russian boomers are going as high as 16,000 to 20,000mt. If you need a sub that will carry 16 or even 24 JL-2, China needs to build a much bigger sub than this.

 

[crolick]

Re: Chinese sub thread

As for the Google images of the 'boomers'. You can measure the subs with the tool given in by the Google-boys.
Xia in dock in Shazikou is ~120 m
2 Jins in Huludao are ~130 m
Jin(?) in Dalian is also ~130 m

The 3 boats in Shazikou with Xia have mere ~88 m hence could not be Hans since those are over 105 m. So either those are Songs either Hans are not so long as it is said to be!

 

[crobato]

Re: Chinese sub thread

Songs are small, like 75m, though slightly longer the Kilos. Both are in two bases close to Ningbo.

The 90m subs are Hans, though some part of them are underwater and cannot be seen in GE. So there maybe some unmeasured length. One of the Hans appear just slightly longer than the other two though not well enough to verify it accurately.

 

[crobato]

Re: Chinese sub thread

New 094 pics. This one matches the way the subs are at Huludao in GE pics circa May 3, 2007. I got a more detailed version of this picture but the forum won't upload it. Note the sail details are more similar to the 093's now.

 

[Roger604]

Re: Chinese sub thread

I think you can link it instead of uploading it. She's a beauty!

 

[netspider]

Re: Chinese sub thread

only 12 tubes, must be 092 Xia with some new modifications, JL-2?

I think you can link it instead of uploading it. She's a beauty!

[qimg]http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/272/u4712efeab00904761hl6.jpg[/qimg]