Chinese submarines thread

[crobato]

Re: Chinese sub thread

Dylan posted this in the CDF last June but I didn't notice it until recently.

"March Renmin Haijun has a report on NSF submarine pennant 328 - likely Song. The CO is Ding Yongwei."

The last pennant sighting for a Song is 327, while allegedly the pennant for the Yuan is 330. The lowest pennant number for a Song is 313.

Given the pennant numbers and by connecting the dots, plus assuming that subs are deployed in sets of four, four subs making a flottila, my estimate or projection of the Songs is raised from 12 to 16. 20 is possible if the entire 310 to 329 are reserved for the Songs. IMO, the production of Songs didn't stop mid last 2006 to transition to the Yuan, but probably continued until the contract quota is finished, even though the Yuan may be ready.

Deployment of Yuan in the South Sea fleet. The initial projection of deployment may be four subs to complete a flottila.

 

[dazbotch]

Re: Chinese sub thread

Hi, I am new here and have been reading this thread avidly (very inforamtive). Sorry if this is a bit off topic but I was reading on the naval news website the other day that Russia, in light of its new increased defence spending/construction is expecting to export about 40! ssk's before 2015. Do you think China will be a customer for the new Amur class (espcially the design with verticle launch tubes for LACM's) and also considering that China invested in the Russian shipyard that bulit their recent Kilo aquisitions to speed their delivery, or that it will rely on its own indigenous designs? Again sorry if its a bit of a change from previous discussions.

Dazbotch

 

[crobato]

Re: Chinese sub thread

China will rely on its indigenous designs as she appears to be quite satisfied with them, a turn around from the situation compared to not too long ago. Development of new subs will always have issues, but the technology and competence appears to improve each year as experience builds. Furthermore the development and cementing of indigenous C31 infrastructure and munitions (missiles and torpeodes) logistics makes the opening for foreign procured subs to be less and less a viable option due to the incompatibilities.

Nice as the Lada is, the chances that China will procure them is nil.

 

[sidewinder]

Re: Chinese sub thread

hi i wanted to know whether the chinese nuclear subs have conducted any long range patrols because i had heard that their subs were confined to the china sea due to radiation leakage problems and does their new jing class type 095 which was photographed on google earth suffer from the same problems or has it been rectified .

 

[crobato]

Re: Chinese sub thread

I don't know if they still have any leakage problems. That does not seem to be the case of the later subs. The earlier Hans 401 and 402 appeared retired. I think the last notable long range patrol of a Chinese nuclear sub was in 2004 when a Han sub intruded on Japanese territorial waters, broke out in the Pacific Ocean, then drove around Guam. Given the international furor it tends to get, and the fact that these subs probably get hounded and tracked by USN subs the moment they come out, I think that keeps the PLAN subs a bit ocean shy.

The problem is that a set of islands called Japan appear to block the main passage from the China seas to the Pacific Ocean. Maybe the Chinese defense minister can arrange with his Japanese counterpart some sort of arrangement that will allow passage of Chinese subs to the Pacific Ocean.

Its not Jing class but Jin class, and its 094 not 095 that is spotted on Google Earth. 094 is a boomer and 095 is probably the next attack sub class. So far it seems the PLAN appears to be content about their new 093 SSN class and appeared to have upgraded the remaining Hans.

For that matter, I don't think China makes it public when their subs go in patrol and we in the forum board don't have access to USN surveillance data. So I don't really see the point of asking questions no one here is truly qualified to answer.

What I do know from open sources is that the 093s appear to be based in Hainan now in the South China sea, along with the Yuans and Kilos. The Hans, the Xia and the Jin appear to be up north, based in Qingdao.

 

[xuansu]

Re: Chinese sub thread

There should be at least one Han stationed in Hainan, based on a photo that first started appearing in 2005 or 2006. It shows many palm tree behind the Han submarine, which also sported markings indicate it has a flank array.

Of course, it could also have been there only on a temporary bases.

 

[crobato]

Re: Chinese sub thread

Here is the interesting questions for the 093.

1. Is there a sub fired YJ-62?

2. Is there a TLAM version of the YJ-62?

3. Can the 093 fire the YJ-62?

The question here is whether the 093 can do TLAMs like the 688s.

 

[optionsss]

Re: Chinese sub thread

This is a anti-ship missile

Is is possible this is a sub-air missile

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or just a cruise missile going at a rather high altitude.

 

[pingouin]

Re: Chinese sub thread

Nope, it's just a regular SSSM launch, viewed from behind rather than from the side. It only looks to go up in the air due to lack of reference points.

 

[crobato]

Re: Chinese sub thread

This one is apparently from Pinkov.

分析中國最093型核潛水艦借鑒俄羅斯
2007-10-03 01:17:24 点击:128
分析中國最093型核潛水艦借鑒俄羅斯

中國時報 2007.10.02　 中央社

　最新一期加拿大「漢和防務評論」分析中國海軍最新公開的093型核動力攻擊潛水艦，指093型核潛船體設計明顯借鑒俄羅斯基洛級KILO 636造型，尾舵的設計方法繼承元級、宋級常規動力潛水艦，是俄式常規潛水艦的尾舵設計概念。

　漢和認為，從迄今為止公開的093型核潛圖片判斷，它已經開始服役。意味著二零零三年左右開始進行的降低噪音改良取得一些進展。093型核潛的出現意味著中國海軍今後將更加頻繁地出入第二島鏈，進入關島甚至夏威夷海區。

　可信的消息來源聲稱，二艘093核潛分別配備在北海艦隊、南海艦隊。形成南海艦隊裝備091G、093型核潛各一艘、北海艦隊裝備二艘091G、一艘093型核潛的態勢。總共五至六艘核動力攻擊潛水艦，總體實力超過英法。

　據報導，俄羅斯Rubin設計局專家在看過元級常規潛水艦圖片後，認為極大程度地借鑒了KILO和Amur兩型俄式潛水艦的設計思路，093型核潛的情況也基本相同。因此，093型並未予以人們深刻印象。

　分析研判，093型潛艦採用俄羅斯傳統的雙殼船體，呈水滴式。艦上沒有發現垂直導彈發射器，意味著所有的武器都是經過魚雷管發射。總體上的感覺是093型核潛與現代俄歐美的核潛水艦、常規動力潛水艦在設計上依然存在相當的技術差距。

　俄羅斯885核動力攻擊潛水艦採用八具垂直發射系統，用於安裝SS-N-27。093型艦的落後可能是中國急於設計新一代的095型核動力攻擊潛水艦的主要原因。中國在水面艦上也沒有安裝垂直發射的艦對艦導彈或者遠端巡航導彈系統。

　漢和創辦人平可夫指出，俄羅斯Rubin設計局已多次澄清從未幫助過中國人設計戰略核潛水艦、核動力攻擊潛水艦。中國也沒有邀請俄方參與這些工程設計。因此，比較合理的解釋是中國詳細研究基洛KILO877/636後自行設計。

Google translation.


Most of China's 093 nuclear-diving vessels from Russia
Click on 2007-10-03 01:17:24: 128
Most of China's 093 nuclear-diving vessels from Russia

The China Times 2007.10.02 CNA

The latest one in Canada, "commented Han and defense" of the Chinese Navy's newest open-093 nuclear-powered attack dive ship that 093 - type nuclear submarine hull design significantly from 636 freighting Russian Kilo-class modeling, design succession tail-yuan, Song-class conventional diving vessel, Russian type of conventional diving the ship rudder design concept.

Han and that, so far from the open-093 nuclear submarine Photo judgment, it has begun service. That began in 2003 about the noise reduction improvements achieved some progress. 093 nuclear submarine of the Chinese Navy in the future will mean more frequent access to the second island chain, or even enter Guam Hawaii waters.

Credible sources claimed that two were equipped with 093 nuclear submarine in the North Sea Fleet, the South China Sea Fleet. Formation of the South China Sea Fleet and equipment 091G, 093 nuclear submarine of a type, the North Sea Fleet of two 091G equipment, a 093 - type nuclear submarine posture. A total of five to six nuclear-powered attack diving vessel, the overall strength over the British and French.

According to reports, Russian experts in the Rubin Design Bureau seen yuan-diving vessels conventional images, that great extent from the freighting and peeling two Russian type of diving ship design ideas, 093 nuclear submarine of the situation is basically the same. Therefore, 093 people - not to be impressed.

Analysis reckons that 093 of the Russian submarines using traditional double-hull ship, was of droplets. Ship found no vertical missile launchers, means that all the weapons are a torpedo tube launch. The overall impression is 093 nuclear submarine of Russia, Europe and the United States with modern nuclear diving ships, conventional diving ship design still exists considerable technological gap.

885 Russian nuclear attack by diving ship eight vertical launch system, for the installation of SS-N-27. 093 of the ship is eager to be behind the design of a new generation of 095 nuclear-powered attack the main reason for the diving vessel. The Chinese ship in the water nor the installation of vertical launch missile or ship-to-ship cruise missile system remotely.

Han and founder Pinkov that Russia Rubin Design Bureau has repeatedly clarified never helped the Chinese diving design strategic nuclear ships, nuclear-powered attack vessel diving. China has not invited Russian participation in the design of these projects. Therefore, a more reasonable explanation is that the Chinese Kilo KILO877/636 after a detailed study was designed.