Chinese submarines thread

[fishhead]

Re: Chinese sub thread

In a nuke sub, it needs compressor and pumps as mentioned, also there is gear box in old design to do the speed transmission. Well in the conventional sub, the power from the battery goes directly into the electrical motor, saving many parts that generate big noise.

In the new nuke sub gear box is dumped I think, the power from the reactor goes to electrical motor as well. It becomes quiter but still nosier than the conventional subs. But the battery can't provide enough power so the conventional sub is very slow, which is the major drawback. Here we see AIP/fuel cell come in that can provide enough power while at the same time keep the sub quite. But it only works in shallow water/short distance costal area, not for ocean combat, where nuke sub rules.

 

[crobato]

Re: Chinese sub thread

A nuclear sub needs to keep its compressor and pumps running in order to cool down the reactor. A diesel electric sub does not; if it needs to go completely silent, every moving part can be shut down and the sub can make like a hole in the water. Also, the size difference between nuclear and diesel electric subs makes a difference; one will be more easily picked up via MAD, and will have a larger acoustic signature.

Nuclear subs also run on steam and a turbine. All these means plumbing and moving parts that make noise. In contrast when underwater, a diesel sub is purely electric, running on an electric motor and batteries. If running with AIP however, and running with diesel engines, the noise would be far worst.

 

[Violet Oboe]

Re: Chinese sub thread

@fishhead: (regarding your Navy Magazine scan)
The sub between 091 and 093 is obviously a type 091G. How many have been built? May be this sub was only a prototype intended for advancing technology before the lead 093 was launched?

(Alternatively 091G is simply the designation for the last two units of type 091 commissioned in '87 and '90 (slightly longer than their 3 predecessors).)

 

[fishhead]

Re: Chinese sub thread

@fishhead: (regarding your Navy Magazine scan)
The sub between 091 and 093 is obviously a type 091G. How many have been built? May be this sub was only a prototype intended for advancing technology before the lead 093 was launched?

(Alternatively 091G is simply the designation for the last two units of type 091 commissioned in '87 and '90 (slightly longer than their 3 predecessors).)

I think 091G only serves as the technical verification for R&D of 093, to probe the way of improvement. Remember couple of years ago a Chinese SSN was cought within Japanese water? It's probably the 091G.

And also don't count how advanced 093 is. Considering the timeline:

093 design started in 1994, the same year first Song went into water(very interesting timing), and we see 093 borrows a lot from Song. But the first Song actually had a lot of problems, only be solved gradually in many years.

The construction of 093 probably started around 1997, well Yuan was built around 2003, so you can judge that Yuan maybe more advanced. The last statement in the Chinese description already hints something, they really don't need to put that in, interesting......

 

[tphuang]

Re: Chinese sub thread

On the latest issue of Chinese navy magazine, pretty sure it's 093. It is refered as "new nuclear sub".


[qimg]http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/3305/0932xx6.jpg[/qimg]


[qimg]http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/731/0931ti6.jpg[/qimg]

if I was to give a guess, I think the magazine is giving bad information. These magazines have never known to be accurate. I'd trust the official pictures of 093 over these pictures any day of the week. Although, they could be pictures of 091G.

 

[fishhead]

Re: Chinese sub thread

if I was to give a guess, I think the magazine is giving bad information. These magazines have never known to be accurate. I'd trust the official pictures of 093 over these pictures any day of the week. Although, they could be pictures of 091G.

Yeah, many people think this way. A lot of folks got disappointed in Chinese sites, they're hoping a big dramatic change but I am not surprised.

We need some time to solve this puzzle.

 

[tphuang]

Re: Chinese sub thread

Yeah, many people think this way. A lot of folks got disappointed in Chinese sites, they're hoping a big dramatic change but I am not surprised.

We need some time to solve this puzzle.

or it could be the so called 093 block 1 and 093 block 2. Hard to say, this one certainly has the diving planes and sails seem to be further forward.

 

[Roger604]

Re: Chinese sub thread

if I was to give a guess, I think the magazine is giving bad information. These magazines have never known to be accurate. I'd trust the official pictures of 093 over these pictures any day of the week. Although, they could be pictures of 091G.

Quoted for truth. The model doesn't look anything like the one in the photos. The one in the photos look much more sleek, while this model looks fatter.

Perhaps the model is the late 90's version of the Type 093 -- i.e. first variant -- while the photos are the 2000/2001 version.

Here we see AIP/fuel cell come in that can provide enough power while at the same time keep the sub quite. But it only works in shallow water/short distance costal area, not for ocean combat, where nuke sub rules.

Is the east coast of Taiwan considered "short distance" from China? Or is it too far? I know it's not shallow, but rather deep waters.

 

[crobato]

Re: Chinese sub thread

Actually I have another theory that the seemingly narrow planeless sail sub shown in the PLA museum may in fact be a new sub class in contrast to the sub with the planes on the sail, and which also appears to be fatter than the former. I did not really see the PLA give or attach a name or label to the former sub and thus it is only "assumed" to be Type 093.

 

[Roger604]

Re: Chinese sub thread

^ From my interpretation of reports, there are at least two, and probably 3 variants of the Type 093.

Type 093A in late 90's

Type 093B in early 2000's

Type 093C in 2006 -- after Type 094 was launched -- this is probably the serial production model


PLAN would not show us Type 093C so early. So it stands to reason that we saw either the Type 093A or the Type 093B. But the sub in the photos looks more advanced than the model, so the former is likely Type 093B and the latter is Type 093A.



Can anybody answer my question about whether the waters off the East Coast of Taiwan are suitable for diesel sub operation? Is it too far from China for an AIP sub to get to?