Chinese submarines thread

[Roger604]

Re: Chinese sub thread

There are a couple of problems I have.
1) that link you posted contains nothing about the 50 knots and such (that I can see)

I think you got me confused with Fishhead. Looking at the link again, lo and behold, they changed it! This is what the paged used to say:

噪音值：揉合了俄国技术设计生产的093噪音值达到了同美“洛杉矶”级SSN早期型的水平外，在攻击能力上基本达到了前苏联的套数和功力，这主要是由其多种仿俄制重型鱼雷来决定的。在速度上据说093可达50节，如果属实，093将可能是世界上最快的SSN。

2) I have seen someone posting something like that in another forum, but that seems to be rehashing of several old 093 speculations that I posted a while back. I really don't think PLAN is willing to give out this kind of sensitive data.

As for propeller technology, that would have to be the last thing they let you see.

Alas, you're saying we can't be sure of anything

I'm just speculating based on incomplete information:

- we know that PLAN requirement is nuclear subs comparable in noise level to Seawolf/Virginia and Ohio (~110 dB)

- we know they'll keep making interim designs until they get to that point, and then serial produce

- they've been doing sea trials on the second Type 093 and the first Type 094 since 2004

- they may have gone public with the Type 093 for the first time because they started serial production, or because they have a new 2007 interim design to play with (it's been 3 years since 2004, so it's about time)

- rumors about difficulties with the Type 093 program suggest the latter

 

[crobato]

Re: Chinese sub thread

And one more.

I finally got to post a ship pic before others did.

 

[crobato]

Re: Chinese sub thread

The current Western trend is no diving planes on the sail, as they are moved onto the hull, for ice durability reasons.

You're right. The latest Song is said to have removed the planes off the sail too.

The sail in Hui Tong's 093 entry has the diving planes, but the pics released here does not. Yet the dimensions and shape of the main sail itself are quite close. I believe both are still 093, and the first one may still have the diving planes in teh sail while the others may not.

This pic of alleged 093s also appear to have diving planes in the sail.

 

[sinowarrior]

Re: Chinese sub thread

I remembered about 10 or 11 years ago when I was still in China and asked one of my relative who use to work in COSTIND about the priority for Chinese military, he said 123 (i.e Type98) for army, 10 for air force (J-10) and ) 094 for the navy. it seems that 093 was no longer the priority for the navy, and 094 development was well underway. Therefore it is a possibility that first 093 was built before 2000, rather than the 2002/3 used by the western analysts, and several models were built, i.e one with diving panel, and others without it, and the public photos indicates that the the 093 follow up is likely to be built or finalized. similar to the revelation of that boomer, as an indication that something new is well underway.

 

[Roger604]

Re: Chinese sub thread

^ That's very credible!

Then the story would go something like this:

- 1999 with help of Rubin first Type 093 launched

- 2002 second Type 93 launched, still not satisfactory so no more

- 2004 first Type 094, not just incorporating Type 093 technology but improving on them, launched

- 2004 (?) design of Type 095 finalized, construction begins on first hull

- 2007 serial produce Type 094, design of Type 096 near completion (Kanwa), possibly first Type 095 nears launch, Type 093 publicly unveiled

- 2011 (?) first Type 096 expected to be launched -- possibly very different generation propulsion

This would explain reports that Type 093 was not satisfactory and so 6 planned boats were reduced to 2. This would also explain why PLAN is apparently satisfied enough with Type 094 to announce they will build at least 5 of them. And it would also explain some reports Type 095 is very far along!

This explanation is very credible. The only question it brings up is now SSN and SSBN are no longer going at lock-step.... who is going to protect the SSBN? Or is it silent enough to protect itself?

:china:

 

[sinowarrior]

Re: Chinese sub thread

^ That's very credible!

Then the story would go something like this:

- 1999 with help of Rubin first Type 093 launched

- 2002 second Type 93 launched, still not satisfactory so no more

- 2004 first Type 094, not just incorporating Type 093 technology but improving on them, launched

- 2004 (?) design of Type 095 finalized, construction begins on first hull

- 2007 serial produce Type 094, design of Type 096 near completion (Kanwa), possibly first Type 095 nears launch, Type 093 publicly unveiled

- 2011 (?) first Type 096 expected to be launched -- possibly very different generation propulsion

This would explain reports that Type 093 was not satisfactory and so 6 planned boats were reduced to 2. This would also explain why PLAN is apparently satisfied enough with Type 094 to announce they will build at least 5 of them. And it would also explain some reports Type 095 is very far along!

This explanation is very credible. The only question it brings up is now SSN and SSBN are no longer going at lock-step.... who is going to protect the SSBN? Or is it silent enough to protect itself?

:china:

but i believe 3 093 were built, i guess need to squeeze bit more from my grandpa.

 

[crobato]

Re: Chinese sub thread

I think the process is very evolutionary.

5 Hans were built. 401 was the prototype, later scrapped possibly due to safety concerns. 402 to 405 lingered on, having endured various updates. 403 to 405 are 'lengthened' Han class intended to fire antiship missiles.

406 becomes the first Xia class.

Between then and now.

"Modified" 091 was planned, and probably built (1 or 2?)

Expanded 092 class based on modified 091 was built, with 16 launchers intended for JL-2. 1 or 2?

First series of 093 built with diving planes in conning tower. Probably two.

Second series of 93 built without diving planes in conning tower. One or two.

In 2004, first 94 launched based on second series of 93.

This is rather sketchy, but at least for now, there is some light being shed in one of the most hidden of the PLA programs.

 

[sinowarrior]

Re: Chinese sub thread

I think the process is very evolutionary.

5 Hans were built. 401 was the prototype, later scrapped possibly due to safety concerns. 402 to 405 lingered on, having endured various updates. 403 to 405 are 'lengthened' Han class intended to fire antiship missiles.

406 becomes the first Xia class.

Between then and now.

"Modified" 091 was planned, and probably built (1 or 2?)

Expanded 092 class based on modified 091 was built, with 16 launchers intended for JL-2. 1 or 2?

First series of 093 built with diving planes in conning tower. Probably two.

Second series of 93 built without diving planes in conning tower. One or two.

In 2004, first 94 launched based on second series of 93.

This is rather sketchy, but at least for now, there is some light being shed in one of the most hidden of the PLA programs.

may be the new model that indicates 091G only existed on paper and the information was later used to build the boomer as shown on google earth?

 

[crobato]

Re: Chinese sub thread

I don't think so personally. A 091A or 091G should have existed materially in order to provide some technical proving ground for any improvements suggested after the Han class before moving on to the improved/extended Xia class. It would have been an interim model. Too late to design a new hull, the sub would still be timely enough to incorporate lessons from the experience of the Han class.

 

[Totoro]

Re: Chinese sub thread

Two questions:

Aren't acoustic tiles meant to 'combat' active sonar (mainly high frequencies) and not passive one?

Does seawolf then posess both the pump jets and a screw? So, where exactly on the hull are the openings for the pump jets located? Or is it possible that seawolf doesn't have a screw under that protective ring?