Chinese semiconductor thread II

[Denebola]

I want to run an idea past forum members. What stops a Chinese fabless firm like say Moore Threads from licensing its designs for GPUs to a European fabless firm, like say Imagination Technologies or any fabless firm in Central Europe; allowing such licensed European firms to contract with TSMC to manufacture advanced nodes GPUs and AI chips designed and licensed to them by Chinese semiconductor design firms under the European companies brand.
Of course they may not be able sell in China, but US jurisdiction does not cover Europe in the same way it impacts the US. Licensed European firms could sell Chinese designed semiconductors across the World and in Asia.

 

[SanWenYu]

I want to run an idea past forum members. What stops a Chinese fabless firm like say Moore Threads from licensing its designs for GPUs to a European fabless firm, like say Imagination Technologies or any fabless firm in Central Europe; allowing such licensed European firms to contract with TSMC to manufacture advanced nodes GPUs and AI chips designed and licensed to them by Chinese semiconductor design firms under the European companies brand.
Of course they may not be able sell in China, but US jurisdiction does not cover Europe in the same way it impacts the US. Licensed European firms could sell Chinese designed semiconductors across the World and in Asia.

Only if Europe is not in bed with the US in trying to strangle the Chinese semiconductor industry.

More importantly, China is the largest market for semiconductor. If production of Chinese designs cannot be sold in China, what would be the point economically?

 

[mst]

Any update on DUV SSA800?

 

[tokenanalyst]

Any update on DUV SSA800?

Given the SMEE is commercializing this:

Is already in production, patterning wafers. That tool and the system around it is indispensable for SMEE immersion scanners to work properly. I think they are probably limited in quantity but it looks like they are ramping up the yearly production of these machines.

 

[Denebola]

Only if Europe is not in bed with the US in trying to strangle the Chinese semiconductor industry.

More importantly, China is the largest market for semiconductor. If production of Chinese designs cannot be sold in China, what would be the point economically?

At the moment there isn't any EU restriction on supplying chips to China. European companies like Infineon supply automotive chips for the EV/ICE car industry. Even under a semiconductor ban, the point of designing for advanced nodes would be to embed and inculcate such design skills even for small production runs in the Chinese fabless semiconductor industry. If Chinese fabs can accomplish making competing designs to Nvidia it would provide a psychological boost to the industry much like Deepseek in AI.
However, I accept that once the US sees a supply line of advanced chips flowing even indirectly to China it could act to stop it. Going forward, the EU may not be on friendly terms with the US, and EU countries like France have been known to assert their independence.

In fact, I suspect that the only reason Trump has not banned the supply of aero engines for the C919 is because it is built by a Franco-American consortium, and the French - unlike the Dutch, are less prone to US pressure.

 

[Hyper]

At the moment there isn't any EU restriction on supplying chips to China. European companies like Infineon supply automotive chips for the EV/ICE car industry. Even under a semiconductor ban, the point of designing for advanced nodes would be to embed and inculcate such design skills even for small production runs in the Chinese fabless semiconductor industry. If Chinese fabs can accomplish making competing designs to Nvidia it would provide a psychological boost to the industry much like Deepseek in AI.
However, I accept that once the US sees a supply line of advanced chips flowing even indirectly to China it could act to stop it. Going forward, the EU may not be on friendly terms with the US, and EU countries like France have been known to assert their independence.

In fact, I suspect that the only reason Trump has not banned the supply of aero engines for the C919 is because it is built by a Franco-American consortium, and the French - unlike the Dutch, are less prone to US pressure.

More like he can't risk losing Ohio in elections because of GE Aviation. Though to be frank he does not seem beholden to lobbyists. And as it currently is, Sanan and ST have a huge JV.

 

[Hyper]

Further economic reasons are: Chinese fabless firms would earn royalties and licensing fees from these transactions while maintaining their skills at the competitive cutting edge. And if successful it could create political power for the licensing european fabless firms, enabling them to lobby the EU against any US extrajudicial restrictions that impact their business.

As I have said before, Trump is not beholden to lobbyists because he is backed by Musk, Ken Griffin ond few others. They can effectively back his campaign and Trump can primary anyone in his party by a single post on Twitter. Corporations surprisingly don't have any power over him.