Chinese semiconductor thread II

paiemon

Junior Member
Registered Member
There are no customers for Samsung < 7nm, almost complete 0
"Weaker than expected volumes from Chinese customers..." - really means "US Sanctions fxxxked us"
The biggest customers for these cutting edge nodes are AMD, nVidia, QCOM, and Apple, all are TMSC.
The other big takeaway from this is the top-heavy concentration of market share in a handful of design/OEM companies, which really narrows down the options for downstream suppliers since if certain customers pullback, they are left with little pipeline to fill capacity.

Korea is in a tough spot because their economy is top heavy with conglomerates but other than Samsung they don't have many design/OEMs that can utilize those services, and I would argue that Samsung's outsized presence probably crowds out other players. And a smaller company would probably be even more risk averse in choosing Samsung as a partner due to performance and conflicts of interest so they would probably stick to TSMC anyway.

Outside of China there just aren't many high volume design/OEM partners either at advanced nodes and the ones that would utilize Samsung as a partner would probably expect lower prices due to Samsung's standing compared to TSMC which would also hurt their margins. It would be interesting to see how this plays with out SMIC's capacity expansion and how that is allocated going forward between Huawei which is a big driving force but also the other designers/OEMs.
 

paiemon

Junior Member
Registered Member
Samsung is remarkably weak at logic chip design taking into consideration how many hardware devices they sell.
Yea, for an IDM with advanced node manufacturing offerings you would think they would be able to leverage those two synergies together since you have a captive anchor customer to push advancements at the leading edge, at least that's the theory in Intel's case. Personally, I think them trying to keep pace with TSMC hurt them overall with their initiatives that ended up falling short, which resulted in a spiral of resource drain and customer abandonment.
 

curiouscat

Junior Member
Registered Member
The other big takeaway from this is the top-heavy concentration of market share in a handful of design/OEM companies, which really narrows down the options for downstream suppliers since if certain customers pullback, they are left with little pipeline to fill capacity.

Korea is in a tough spot because their economy is top heavy with conglomerates but other than Samsung they don't have many design/OEMs that can utilize those services, and I would argue that Samsung's outsized presence probably crowds out other players. And a smaller company would probably be even more risk averse in choosing Samsung as a partner due to performance and conflicts of interest so they would probably stick to TSMC anyway.

Outside of China there just aren't many high volume design/OEM partners either at advanced nodes and the ones that would utilize Samsung as a partner would probably expect lower prices due to Samsung's standing compared to TSMC which would also hurt their margins. It would be interesting to see how this plays with out SMIC's capacity expansion and how that is allocated going forward between Huawei which is a big driving force but also the other designers/OEMs.
Yes, that last part is concerning. There is a lot of concern in China that HUAWEI is crowding out all the other smaller players in China which would have negative effects on Chinese industry. HUAWEI also has similar business practices to Apple where everything is locked down which makes it more difficult for small players, hobbyists, and students too.

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proelite

Junior Member
Yes, that last part is concerning. There is a lot of concern in China that HUAWEI is crowding out all the other smaller players in China which would have negative effects on Chinese industry. HUAWEI also has similar business practices to Apple where everything is locked down which makes it more difficult for small players, hobbyists, and students too.

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I wouldn't worry about this right now. The first step is bridging the gap no matter the method.
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Huawei is doing just fine. It is their competition in China that is way too weak. For example why is UNISOC not competitive against MediaTek? Why are they stuck as a supplier to Transsion?

MediaTek just uses market available IP blocks to make SoCs. There is nothing particularly complex about it. Qualcomm used to be little better. Qualcomm designed a subpar GPU, paired it with more or less off the shelf CPU designs, they have their own radio block and that is it.

UNISOC does have their own radio. And GPU designs can be licensed from either ARM or Imagination Technologies. CPU designs can be licensed from ARM.

It sounds to me like they are trying to fly under the radar. And now you have Xiaomi and Oppo trying and sometimes failing to design their own chipsets.
 

GulfLander

Junior Member
Registered Member
"Chairman of Huawei's Consumer Business Group Richard Yu today confirmed the upcoming release of Huawei Mate 70 was scheduled in November, and Yicai learned that it is set to be unveiled at the end of this month, which will be reportedly equipped with HarmonyOS Next operating system."


...

"Samsung Electronics is aiming to overcome its current downturn with a new strategy for its memory chip business, which may be accompanied by an upcoming shakeup of the president-level executives in its semiconductor division."

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tokenanalyst

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NationalChip Technology's third-quarter revenue hit a record high, with significant growth in automotive electronics chip business​


On October 30, Guoxin Technology released its third quarter report. The announcement showed that the company's operating income in the first three quarters was 470 million yuan, a year-on-year increase of 16.58%. In Q3 2024, the company achieved revenue of 208 million yuan, a year-on-year increase of 34.61% and a month-on-month increase of 151.34%. Both the single-quarter revenue and the first three quarters revenue hit record highs.

For many years, Guoxin Technology has always regarded technological innovation as the core of its corporate development. Guoxin Technology invested a total of 81.271 million yuan in R&D expenses in the third quarter, a year-on-year increase of 20.47%, accounting for 39.04% of its operating income; before that, R&D expenses incurred 71.7368 million yuan in the first quarter and 72.3934 million yuan in the second quarter. The total R&D expenses from January to September were 225.4012 million yuan, a year-on-year increase of 26.97%. The continuous and stable capital investment demonstrates the company's determination to promote R&D and ensure that projects are completed on schedule.
In the short term, the net profit attributable to the parent company of Guoxin Technology is still under pressure, but the net cash flow from operating activities in the third quarter turned from negative to positive. From January to September 2024, the net cash flow generated by Guoxin Technology's operating activities was 36.863 million yuan. The main business performed strongly, the sales collection ability was greatly improved, and the financial situation was relatively stable.

Among the main business segments, automotive electronics has received the most attention from the market. Based on its own C*Core CPU core with complete intellectual property rights, Guoxin Technology has achieved the safety and independent control of application chips in automotive electronics and other fields, and has the competitive advantages of low cost and independent control; on the other hand, with continuous research and development in the past three years, automotive electronic chips have initially completed the serialization and high-end product layout. In the first three quarters of 2024, Guoxin Technology's automotive electronic chip business achieved revenue of more than 45 million yuan, and the revenue volume and shipment volume reached or approached the level of the whole year last year. It is reported that the series of products have been applied in many automobile manufacturers such as BYD, Chery, Geely, SAIC, SAIC-GM, SAIC-GM-Wuling, Changan, Great Wall, FAW, Dongfeng, BAIC, and Xiaopeng.

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tokenanalyst

Brigadier
Registered Member

NAURA delivers high uniformity and high capacity 12-inch Cygnus series PECVD equipment to customers​


NAURA has been deeply involved in the field of PECVD equipment for many years . In 2012, it launched the EPEE 550 series PECVD equipment for the preparation of dielectric films in the LED field. With its excellent process performance and cost-effectiveness,it has sold nearly a thousand units to clients. In 2019, it launched the EPEE i200/800 series PECVD equipment for the preparation of dielectric films in power devices, compounds, MEMS and other fields,providing dielectric film growth solutions for nearly 100 customers . In 2022, it launched the Lyra series 12-inch dielectric film growth PECVD equipment for the integrated circuit fieldhas won the recognition of many mainstream customers forits excellent process results and high stability of the equipmentThe Cygnus series of 12- inch plasma-enhanced chemical vapor deposition equipment launched this time is mainly used to prepare a variety of high-quality dielectric films such as silicon oxide, silicon nitride, silicon oxynitride, silicon oxycarbide, and silicon carbonitride, which can meet the diverse application requirements of logic, storage, and advanced packaging for passivation layers, isolation layers, anti-reflective layers, and etch stop layers. Cygnus uses a multi-station multi-step deposition process to achieve high uniformity and high productivity, better process consistency, and higher reliability . It not only meets the process requirements for dielectric film growth in the existing logic and storage fields, but also solves the transmission and process uniformity problems of large warped silicon wafers , and can be applied to the growth of dielectric films in 2.5D/3D three-dimensional device processes.

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tokenanalyst

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Sichuan Fulide Semiconductor Industry Bellows Production Project Completed and Put into Production​


The total investment of the project is RMB 300 million, which will be constructed in two phases. After full production, it is expected to achieve an annual output value of about RMB 600 million. The project mainly produces bellows components. As an important industrial component, this product has good flexibility, sealing and corrosion resistance. It can ensure the safe transportation and effective control of the medium under various complex working conditions. It is widely used in domestic semiconductors, medical equipment, high-speed rail, photovoltaics and other high-tech scientific research fields, and plays an indispensable and key role in the modern industrial system.

He Xianhan, President and Representative Director of Japan Magnetic Technology Holdings Co., Ltd. and Chairman of the Board of Directors of FERROTEC China, said that since 2015, FerroTec (China) Group has successively invested in the Fulede Phase III project and the Fulehua Phase I project in Neijiang Economic Development Zone, and has received strong support from the local government. He has personally felt the good business environment of Neijiang City and Neijiang Economic Development Zone. The group will continue to climb to new heights, constantly create a new situation for semiconductor equipment components, and write a new chapter in the localization of vacuum bellows.

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