Chinese semiconductor industry

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krautmeister

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It seems Loongsoon is dropping everything (MIPS, x86, RISC-V,etc) and is developing its own architecture called LoongArch.

"Importantly, the LoongArch architecture is completely developed from scratch and has nothing to do with ALPHA, ARM, MIPS, POWER, RISC-V or x86 – an independent evaluation organization came to this conclusion, saying that Loongson has developed its own design of the instruction system, instruction format, instruction coding and addressing modes."
If LoongArch isn't just some research project that will embed in something like the old Godson processors for the next 15 years, then this needs to be mandated in non-critical government offices everywhere while being simultaneously mandated for further R&D in all the universities and related research institutions. This is the only way it will have a chance of reaching critical mass to overcome the inertia of the x86 and ARM software ecosystems.

RISC-V is an easier and more adoptable ISA, especially for future mobile SoCs if it were used alongside HarmonyOS + China app ecosystem. RISC-V would definitely succeed within China. However, outside of China, there is no way in hell that any new ISA could compete without compatibility with the existing software ecosystems out there. Imo, LoongArch absolutely has to add compatibility for x86 and/or ARM and do it with near native performance. This is already being done with the Loongson 3A5000 chip except it's using their MIPS ISA variant. If they used LoongArch instead, it would make a lot of sense. It would actually make even more sense to use RISC-V instead to do this. However, RISC-V even being "open standard" has its pitfalls, because at the end of the day, RISC-V was created in America at Berkeley and you can never trust that government no matter what you believe. They couldn't even keep the RISC-V Foundation located in America without risking the threat of American government intervention of some kind. That's like saying you can't keep the United Nations in New York City. The atmosphere has become that paranoid and toxic because of these numbskulls.
 

jfcarli

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If LoongArch isn't just some research project that will embed in something like the old Godson processors for the next 15 years, then this needs to be mandated in non-critical government offices everywhere while being simultaneously mandated for further R&D in all the universities and related research institutions. This is the only way it will have a chance of reaching critical mass to overcome the inertia of the x86 and ARM software ecosystems.

RISC-V is an easier and more adoptable ISA, especially for future mobile SoCs if it were used alongside HarmonyOS + China app ecosystem. RISC-V would definitely succeed within China. However, outside of China, there is no way in hell that any new ISA could compete without compatibility with the existing software ecosystems out there. Imo, LoongArch absolutely has to add compatibility for x86 and/or ARM and do it with near native performance. This is already being done with the Loongson 3A5000 chip except it's using their MIPS ISA variant. If they used LoongArch instead, it would make a lot of sense. It would actually make even more sense to use RISC-V instead to do this. However, RISC-V even being "open standard" has its pitfalls, because at the end of the day, RISC-V was created in America at Berkeley and you can never trust that government no matter what you believe. They couldn't even keep the RISC-V Foundation located in America without risking the threat of American government intervention of some kind. That's like saying you can't keep the United Nations in New York City. The atmosphere has become that paranoid and toxic because of these numbskulls.
Here's some extra info on LoongArch by cntechpost.com

Loongson unveils in-house developed instruction set architecture LoongArch in historic breakthrough​

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April 15, 2021

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Seems there is even an OS running on LoongArch. I guess they really mean business.

Here's some more

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horse

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A major breakthrough in the process below 1 nanometer!TSMC official announces "bismuth" secret weapon​

2021/05/19 06:01:02


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Any comments?

Wait a minute.

Why do all these guys have mainland pinyin spelling for their names?

Sounds like a nice breakthrough. If it comes to market, it will be a while because they still have not reach the drawing board yet. Looks like the race to get below the current nm nodes is racing ahead.

That news the other day about the non-volatile memory, that probably closer to become a market product because logic chip harder to make I think.
 

krautmeister

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Here's some extra info on LoongArch by cntechpost.com

Loongson unveils in-house developed instruction set architecture LoongArch in historic breakthrough​

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April 15, 2021

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Seems there is even an OS running on LoongArch. I guess they really mean business.

Here's some more

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The Loongson 3A5000 has those extensions for improving x86 (Linux/Windows) and ARM performance that I suggested are absolutely critical to help adoption of this new ISA given the market domination of those ISA software ecosystems. It's interesting that they designed binary translation tools for these other ISAs but they were only able to achieve 100% of the native performance of LoongArch code with MIPS while ARM and x86 do relatively poorly. Makes you wonder how much of MIPS ISA the LoongArch ISA inherited. My guess would be it's a lot with the major differences being the re-design to avoid IP infringement.
 

Nutrient

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The Loongson 3A5000 has those extensions for improving x86 (Linux/Windows) and ARM performance that I suggested are absolutely critical to help adoption of this new ISA given the market domination of those ISA software ecosystems.
The extensions are probably for things like condition code management, one of the hardest things to get right in a binary translator.


It's interesting that they designed binary translation tools for these other ISAs but they were only able to achieve 100% of the native performance of LoongArch code with MIPS while ARM and x86 do relatively poorly.
That is normal for binary translation or dynamic translation. You get 100% native performance only for native executables. Even so, on a 2 GHz Loongson 3A5000, getting 70% of native performance means 1.4 GHz performance for the emulated architectures, which is pretty good. You can get a lot of work done at 1.4 GHz.


Makes you wonder how much of MIPS ISA the LoongArch ISA inherited. My guess would be it's a lot with the major differences being the re-design to avoid IP infringement.
I understand that Loongson Technology has been using the MIPS architecture for a long time without being sued for IP infringement. So they probably have a MIPS license.

Incidentally, a
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exists for the 3A5000, though there isn't much information. It does say the new chip runs at either 2 GHz or 2.5 GHz, has 4 cores, and contains 16 MB of L3 cache. Pretty good.

The page also says the operating system is named "Loongnix-Desktop 20", which suggests it's a variant of Linux. I think it is: a listing on the page looks very much like the typical contents of /proc/cpuinfo on Linux.
 
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krautmeister

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Incidentally, a
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exists for the 3A5000, though there isn't much information. It does say the new chip runs at either 2 GHz or 2.5 GHz, has 4 cores, and contains 16 MB of L3 cache. Pretty good.

The page also says the operating system is named "Loongnix-Desktop 20", which suggests it's a variant of Linux. I think it is: a listing on the page looks very much like the typical contents of /proc/cpuinfo on Linux.
LoongArch is a positive development, but unless it receives fully subsidized and mandated use in China's government offices, schools and research institutions, I think it will achieve little commercial success. I think what should have been done instead is to use RISC-V ISA as the foundation and add whatever extensions to assist binary translation for x86 and ARM. This could be used as the bridge to a future OS + ecosystem completely China based, which I think would succeed within China and have limited success outside of China.

With RISC-V, it could be used for all manner of ICs from industrial chips, automotive, IoT, smartphones, etc. From what I know, LoongArch is actually designed with the same design philosphy as RISC-V, which is a minimalist approach. The main difference is, it includes alot of extensions for virtualization and binary translation. It's almost like LoongArch is RISC-V specifically designed to do the same thing but also to support other ISAs. It will be interesting how LoongArch removes MIPS support and adds RISC-V.
 
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ansy1968

Brigadier
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Under what processes is DPU chips is being produced 28nm , 22nm or 20nm? what is its significance as the article mentioned it at par and same level as Nvidia (using 7nm chips) and Broadcom.


from Beidou2020 (Pakistan Defense Forum)

Yusur eyes greater prospects with homegrown DPU chips
By CHENG YU | China Daily
Updated: May 20, 2021

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DPU, as a newly-developed dedicated processor, is seeing rapid development as the data surge has created huge demand for computing delay, data security, and virtualization tech. [Photo/yusur.tech]

Homegrown data processing units, or DPU semiconductors, are expected to be at the forefront of China's efforts to reduce dependence on foreign chip companies and bolster independent production of vital components, according to the founder of a leading tech startup.

"China lags behind developed countries in the manufacture of previous generations of chips. But when it comes to DPU chips, it is on a par with the rest of the world," said Yan Guihai, founder and CEO of Yusur.

"The country has the world's strongest internet industry with the largest group of netizens and related infrastructure. This has led to a huge demand for computing power and created huge development opportunities for DPU products," Yan said.

According to Yan, unlike the well-known central processing unit that does general-purpose computing, DPUs have been designed to process data that get moved around the data center.

"DPU, as a newly-developed dedicated processor, is seeing rapid development as the data surge has created huge demand for computing delay, data security, and virtualization tech. Unlike other semiconductors, DPUs can help solve problems related to these sectors," he said.

Yusur, which is backed by the Institute of Computing Technology of the Chinese Academy of Sciences, has been developing DPUs based on its self-developed Kernel Processing Unit architecture. Its related products and solutions have been applied in several scenarios like fast financial transactions and risk control.

The move toward self-reliance comes amid Sino-US trade friction, which has bolstered investments from Chinese entrepreneurs in the domestic chip industry.

Last year, investors poured more than 200 billion yuan ($30.9 billion) into the chip sector. It was much higher than the 70 billion yuan or more seen in 2019. Venture capital firms, private equity firms and IPOs of startups were the main sources of funding for the sector.

The country's annual tone-setting Central Economic Work Conference in December highlighted the importance of technological innovation to solve major problems that restrict the nation's economic development.

The conference said China will ensure better implementation of key projects targeting breakthroughs in key technologies and solutions to bottleneck problems, while encouraging businesses to focus on their areas of strength and forge new cutting-edge technologies.

Driven by the huge demand for chips, the company's order book has been swelling, while chip output has already hit a record in the first quarter of this year, Yan said.

When it comes to DPU chips, the company is pitted against big global names like Intel, Nvidia and Broadcom, all of whom are using the Arm architecture.

"Unlike these firms, Yusur uses heterogeneous computing, which refers to systems that use more than one kind of processor or cores," he said.

Zhang Yansheng, chief researcher at the China Center for International Economic Exchanges, said: "It is a clear sign that China, starting from this year, is keen on boosting its self-developed technological prowess."
 
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