Chinese semiconductor industry

Status
Not open for further replies.
Annihilation98

Annihilation98

Junior Member
Registered Member
antiterror13 said:
Or Nikon could have partner in China and produce it in China totally without American technology/product, even a screw
Click to expand...
I don't think Nikon will make factory in China. The better solution is China needs to buy thousands of Nikon DUV before USA sanctions. Nikon DUV can produce at least 7nm equivalent to ASML 2000i. After that, China can think about reverse engineering their DUV.
 
Annihilation98

Annihilation98

Junior Member
Registered Member
Xsizor said:
I think I saw a chart where it said SMIC would be following on the N+2 process ( 7nm) to an EUV 7nm process.

But the 7nm of SMIC (N+1) is 35% less powerful than the TSMC 7nm. A gimmick isn't the right way to put it. It's certainly a drawback.
Click to expand...
7nm is just okay for China to survive if USA fully sanctions all China tech companies. Don't compare against TSMC, just think about how to survive in mainland China if cold war broke out.
 
Xizor

Xizor

Captain
Registered Member
Nikon is selling DUV machines to China. ASML too.

I thought it's any lithography machine allowing 7nm above technology manufacturing that is under the US sanction list. The primary aim is to stifle China's reach of Artificial Intelligence.

Regarding buying "thousands of DUV" from Nikon - I don't think it's long term a helpful move.
 
J

jfcarli

Junior Member
Registered Member
"Japanese media reported that Nikon plans to lay off 2,000 employees, accounting for 10% of the entire group. The direct reason for the layoffs was that the company's cash cow lithography machine couldn't make money."

Maybe hire some of those employees laid off by Nikon? How difficult for a Japanese to learn Chinese?
 
J

jfcarli

Junior Member
Registered Member
Xsizor said:
Nikon is selling DUV machines to China. ASML too.

I thought it's any lithography machine allowing 7nm above technology manufacturing that is under the US sanction list. The primary aim is to stifle China's reach of Artificial Intelligence.

Regarding buying "thousands of DUV" from Nikon - I don't think it's long term a helpful move.
Click to expand...
I think there is an awful lot of stuff that can be produced with Nikon`s DUVs. SMEE can`t produce enough as yet to satisfy China`s needs. So as many litography machines China can buy form Nikon, from ASML or from SMEE the better.

China is behind not just in EUV technology. It is also behind in the volume of older technologies. I have no statistics but I imagine China uses less than 25 pct of chips under 7nm. So there is an enormous amount of chips over 7nm that China can produce using DUV over 7nm. Any of those DUV machines bought today will still be in use 10 years from now.

China still imports a lot of over 7nm chips. Once the US sees that the orders from China for chips over 7nm will be jeopardized by litography machines from ASML and NIKON, the US will find a way of screwing China forbidding imports of those machines.

It is not just new technology which is at stake. It is production volume as well.
 
Annihilation98

Annihilation98

Junior Member
Registered Member
China actually can indigenously produce 7nm chips based on this article:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


"China's Shanghai Micro Electronics Equipment (SMEE), founded in 2002, announced that it was building on its previous 90nm to produce the first China-made 28nm immersion type lithography machine, which will be delivered in 2021-2022. This means it can produce 12nm -14nm Chips, but with multiple patterning techniques will be able to reach 7nm."

-It also can produce 5nm but require more layer and more advance DUV machine.
EUV 12 layers at 7nm versus 68 DUV layers.
EUV 22 layers at 5nm vs 78 DUV layers.
 
A

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
Annihilation98 said:
Can Nikon sell DUV machine to China?
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


View attachment 72386
Click to expand...
@Annihilation98 bro I told you so, the US hates the Japanese more than the Chinese, the 2nd paragraph is evident proof of the distrust. And I'm flabbergasted that the Japanese haven't taken the hint and take action, instead of relying on the US for grace they needed a JV with the Chinese while the opportunity is still there, Gigaphoton 250kw LPP is one fine masterpieces of an equipment within 2 years the door will closed and it will be such a waste as the Chinese produce an equivalent and even better with a SSMB.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top