Chinese semiconductor industry

FairAndUnbiased said:

Where is your evidence for any of this? 90 nm has no sales but we have video of 65 nm getting forklifted into a fab? Ok I guess we can accept that 90 nm has no sales known to you, but 65 nm has sales.

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Other than the article you yourself linked, I was largely quoting this paper (March 2021):

nlalyst said:

Other than the article you yourself linked, I was largely quoting this paper:

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Ah a neocon political thinktank report. Definitely a fair and unbiased source lmao.

nlalyst said:

Other than the article you yourself linked, I was largely quoting this paper (March 2021):

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BTW why so snippy dude? 65 nm is still "backwards" and it's only for "low end" packaging purposes right? It couldn't ever possibly be repurposed for "super high end" front end processes could it? I mean nobody goes off label for these things. And it 100% could never ever serve as a platform to develop 28 nm, could it?

FairAndUnbiased said:

I heard you like announcements, how about one from the customer?

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How about another source?

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I asked for an official statement from SMEE. This doesn't even look like a photolithography system !? Thanks for wasting my time.

dudes you are talking to a guy coming from a country where people talked about ass-trophysics and space race then went ahead and crashed their rover into the moon after 20 years of development.

try this

nlalyst said:

I asked for an official statement from SMEE. This doesn't even look like a photolithography system !? Thanks for wasting my time.

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I admire your understanding of the topic. But have you done the needful today?

FairAndUnbiased said:

Yooo I heard there's no evidence for 90 nm...

There's only evidence for 65 nm being delivered to customers, literally, with a forklift.

Industry reporters:

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Sina Finance (of Sina Weibo):

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Then you have actual insiders talking about 28 nm process. Hmmm... Hey guys, why are you letting this guy get you

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Hey guys, why are you letting nlalyst goad you into this kind of stuff. The info is out there, just depends on what sources you read. No need to prove anything online and be a keyboard warrior. Only time will tell who is right. Nothing else matters but results. Let's wait and see. We can make bets and I bet on china but online pissing contests like this is useless.

MortyandRick said:

Hey guys, why are you letting nlalyst goad you into this kind of stuff. The info is out there, just depends on what sources you read. No need to prove anything online and be a keyboard warrior. Only time will tell who is right. Nothing else matters but results. Let's wait and see. We can make bets and I bet on china but online pissing contests like this is useless.

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Even despite all that I don't think his questions are invalid, and ultimately hashing out and trading notes on what the best sources are for "Chinese semiconductor watching" is also beneficial to the community at large.

But then again, this thread might be monitored, so perhaps openly discussing it may also be actively detrimental..

@nlalyst

However, a home grown 28nm DUV lithography machine is scheduled to spin up from Shanghai Microelectronic Equipment by the end of this year

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If you want more sources you are free to go back 50-100 pages in the thread and start looking for the posted sources

Pro-tip: Just check WTAN's (a couple other names but I forgot them..) profile

Bltizo said:

But then again, this thread might be monitored, so perhaps openly discussing it may also be actively detrimental..

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Overbom said:

Pro-tip: Just check WTAN's (a couple other names but I forgot them..) profile

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*PicardHandOnHead.jpg*

antiterror13 said:

if China pay
* 1x, perhaps not
* 2x, >50% will go
* 3x, ready to fly tomorrow or today

so money talks, really the bs walks away

Most (>99%) Taiwanese top engineers are Han Chinese, moving to China is as easy as moving from Scotland to England

No cultural or language barrier at all, the same people, the same culture, the same values (Confucius), the same skin colour, etc

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China should switch back to Traditional Chinese.

Tyler said:

Is it going to be the Huawei

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nlalyst said:

If SMEE systems are as good as you claim, why are they not used for processes under 90nm? Some publications I've read claim that even the 90nm SMEE tool is just a prototype, useless for mass manufacturing.

Getting the wafer stage and rest of the system performance to the level where you can do double, triple or quadruple patterning is just as challenging as getting the baseline resolution right. Complex features on 7nm require more than just double patterning with DUV immersion.

As far as I know, DUV cannot do 28nm. The physical limit is 32 nm. 28nm must refer to to the process name.

It's well understood in the industry that single exposure EUV products have superior electrical features to DUV multiple exposure products. Anyone stuck on DUV, will have a hard time to competing in performance.

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SMEE has a different way of describing the capabilities of its DUVL. Different to that of ASML.
ASML describes its DUVL as having a resolution.of 38nm.
SMEE describes its DUVL according to Node or Process Node. In other words the DUVL can produce 28nm ICs using a single exposure. It can do 14nm with double exposure. Etc.
There is not much Western Literature on the SMEE DUVL as it will be mainly be sold within China.
Chinese Govt also wants to keep this low profile just in case it excites people like Ron Vara amd Marco Rubio.
There is no point for SMEE to promote the product in English to Western countries.
Maybe one day.
And by the way this Machine actually exists.
A lack of Western Media reports about it and its specifications, does not mean it doesnt exist.
Any further debate about this matter is bacically a waste of time and Data.