Chinese semiconductor industry

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huemens

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Does the p50 still use Sony I though that deal fell through at the last minute? That is why the p50 series no longer is using the well known RYYB sensor. Huawei had to postpone the launch of the p50 series.
It seems you are right. I didn't know about that.
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They are using Omnivision for sensor
 
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tokenanalyst

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TSMC, in an effort to boost the consumer demand for its 3nm process, is planning to launch a Continuous Improvement Plan (CIP) for its EUV equipment, according to industry insiders. TSMC’s 3nm process is scheduled to enter mass production in the second half of 2022.

TSMC expects to raise its capital expenditure to US$100 billion for the coming three years, and 80% of which will be used on capacity expansion. However, concerns have been rising toward TSMC’s aggressive capital expenditure, fearing that it will hurt the foundry’s gross margins. Last month, reflecting exactly such a fear, Morgan Stanley downgraded TSMC’s stock rating to Neutral.

Zhan Jiahong, an analyst from Morgan Stanley, believes that TSMC’s extensive capital spending will drive its gross margins to below 50% in the long term. In the first quarter of this year, the margin stood at 52.4%. However, while TSMC’s revenues grew by 16.7% during the quarter, its product costs also grew by 15.2%.

As TSMC revealed, as of 2020, it already owned half of the world’s operating EUV lithography machines.

With EUV machines representing a large proportion of TSMC’s capital expenditure, their high costs will in turn be transferred to TSMC’s 3nm process. Fearing that the high price tag of its 3nm process would drive customers away and lead to lower gross margins, TSMC hopes that the EUV Continuous Improvement Plan will reduce the number of EUV machines it requires in the future by cutting down the EUV layers used in the 3nm process.

For N7+, TSMC has introduced EUV machines for the first time, using four EUV layers to reduce the application of multi-patterning techniques. For 6nm, five EUV layers are enquired, while 5nm reportedly use up to 14-15 layers. The 3nm process, in comparison, is expected to use up to 25 layers. With CIP, TSMC hopes to reduce the layers to 20.

I think this is one of the biggest reason why TSMC is rising prices, EUV expenditure is eating their money, they are realizing that EUV is not going to cut manufacturing costs as much as they thought. On the one hand, Moore's law in digital circuits reduces the price per transistor exponentially but at the same time increases manufacturing costs also exponentially. I believe that the industry is reaching the point of diminishing returns, so at some point the industry is going to have to change the paradigm of how integrated circuits are manufactured because high NA EUV machines are not going to be any cheaper.

In R&D, vendors are working on an assortment of new
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technologies, such as scanners, resists, and masks. These will be necessary to reach future process nodes, but they are more complex and expensive than the current EUV products. For example, ASML is developing new EUV scanners, including a next-generation system with a staggering price tag of more than $300 million per unit. So far, it’s unclear if these systems will arrive on time.
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jfcarli

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This is the most interesting part.

Japanese companies are ignoring US technology sanctions in order to supply Huawei?

If I were a Japanese executive, I'd be sweating and then working feverishly to bring down US technology content to 0% on all my products.



asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Huawei-crackdown/Chinese-components-double-to-60-in-new-Huawei-smartphone
Looks like they are between the cross and the sword.
 

bettydice

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Is it that YMTC doesn't sell memory chips to Huawei due to the US sanction? That might explain why Mate 40E which was launched later doesn't use YMTC memory chips and use Korean companies' instead, even though YMTC memory chips were used on standard Mate 40 series.
 

jfcarli

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Using this new solution, Huawei can indeed make 14nm chips comparable to 7nm chips.​

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DUV+ 3D stacking + Hisilicon's design expertise, with this expertise Huawei will circumvent EUV restrictions and show middle finger to under 5nm technologies.

I am a firm believer that DUV still has a huge, huge unexploited potential. AND IT IS CHEAPER.
 

ZeEa5KPul

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DUV+ 3D stacking + Hisilicon's design expertise, with this expertise Huawei will circumvent EUV restrictions and show middle finger to under 5nm technologies.

I am a firm believer that DUV still has a huge, huge unexploited potential. AND IT IS CHEAPER.
This doesn't mean that China's EUV efforts should be slowed down at all. China must explore all feasible avenues in future chipmaking.
 

jfcarli

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This doesn't mean that China's EUV efforts should be slowed down at all. China must explore all feasible avenues in future chipmaking.
Agree completely. But no reason to go paranoid. Easy does it. Furthermore, if China spends half the effort it is spending with EUV it might even leapfrog EUV altogether. In the meantime, DUV + 3D Stacking (the sky is the limit) + Hisilicon immense design know how will lift Huawei and the whole of China semiconductor industry.
 

BlackWindMnt

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Isn't that article assuming that Yangtze River Storage will just hand over their IP to Huawei? I'm pretty sure stacking 3D with Nand is not the same as stacking logic, cache and memory those are probably orders of magnitude more complex.
 
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