Chinese semiconductor industry

Status
Not open for further replies.

antonius123

Junior Member
Registered Member
Apple's, and AMD's chips will be 5 times more expensive if they are produced by TSMC in the US.

Is it? the TSMC's production cost of 3nm in US up to 5x than in Taiwan?

If thats the case then Intel leading edge chip will kill that of AMD due to 5x cost
 

tokenanalyst

Brigadier
Registered Member
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Northern China's Tianjin encourages local entities to carry out research on IC technology for the post-Moore era to break through core technologies and improve the capabilities of IC raw materials, equipment production, design and manufacturing, and testing and packaging.


The Tianjin government on Monday released a plan to accelerate digital development from 2021-2023, saying it will accelerate research and development of industrial software and control software for design and manufacturing, and reach RMB 260 billion in software and information technology services by 2023.


The city will implement projects including SMIC advanced process chip, Phytium headquarters, and Huanou Semiconductor intelligent slicing, and the scale of the electronic information industry will reach RMB 240 billion by 2023.
 

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Northern China's Tianjin encourages local entities to carry out research on IC technology for the post-Moore era to break through core technologies and improve the capabilities of IC raw materials, equipment production, design and manufacturing, and testing and packaging.


The Tianjin government on Monday released a plan to accelerate digital development from 2021-2023, saying it will accelerate research and development of industrial software and control software for design and manufacturing, and reach RMB 260 billion in software and information technology services by 2023.


The city will implement projects including SMIC advanced process chip, Phytium headquarters, and Huanou Semiconductor intelligent slicing, and the scale of the electronic information industry will reach RMB 240 billion by 2023.
@tokenanalyst WOW!!! 2023 the urgency is picking up and state is providing full support. In the long run SMIC may equal or dethrone TSMC, its China state Champion and I hope TSMC may not begrudge SMIC cause they share the same DNA, thanks to Richard Chang and Liang Mong Song....LOL
 

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
@antonius123 bro I think the creator of this video takes its info here in SDF and may have mistaken the N+1 (8nm)as 7nm, that mantle is reserved for N+2, the timeline of its introduction as reported by GOLDMAN SACHS is 2023. SMIC is secretive about N+2 progress and its trial production as they don't want to incur any attention from Washington DC and risk additional sanction.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

213 views1 day ago

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

213 views1 day ago

China has recently made new breakthroughs in its 7nm chip-making process, reportedly developing tools and know-how for several segments of the manufacturing process amid efforts to reduce reliance on foreign equipment and material vendors. As the world's largest semiconductor market, China has been spending aggressively in semiconductor investment, acquisition, and talent recruitment to bolster the industry by on-shoring chip manufacturing equal to those of the world's top foundries.
 

krautmeister

Junior Member
Registered Member
Now the reality bites as the cost of producing 5nm chips at FAB 21 is Five times more expensive as they compare that of Taiwan. @antonius123 bro the mass production date is 2024, as reported in the video all FABS had raise their price due to the shortage, now picture this as China 28nm mass production ensued next year and that of 14nm in 2023 and 7nm at 2024, they will flood the market as @krautmeister had summarized, those FABS in Arizona will become a big white elephant project. If Huawei and SMIC can able to produced a 7nm 3D stacking chipset, then tech wise we are even with the US (5nm Arizona FAB).
It's not that China will flood the market but rather that China's domestic semiconductor production will start to seriously damage semiconductor imports into China, sometime between 2023-2024. The effect on the already alarming global fab overcapacity at that time will be dramatically magnified. Profits aren't made until fixed + variable costs are covered. It is impossible for these costs, let alone R&D, to be recouped if China comes anywhere close to self-sufficiency when China represents well over half the world's semiconductor consumption (domestic+re-export). When the current manic construction of fab capacity is completed between now and 2024, it will be synchronized with China's semiconductor self-sufficiency >=14nm. It will take time for China to ramp up scale but even so, sometime between 2026-2027, this will result in idle global fab capacity of something approaching 50% with costs increasing globally as reshoring happens in the US, Europe and Japan, all while margins crater. For those semiconductor companies who don't merge or go bankrupt, there will be the remainder who will be slashing multiyear R&D costs across the board. This will slow down semiconductor tech advance at the leading edge at the same time that China completely catches up in DUV and begins gradually catching up everywhere else at lower costs.

This is a nightmare scenario for the global semiconductor industry and nirvana for China's domestic industry. However, there's always the probability where the Anglo-American alliance engineer political and/or military solutions. I think this is highly likely given that they never seem to learn.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
It's not that China will flood the market but rather that China's domestic semiconductor production will start to seriously damage semiconductor imports into China, sometime between 2023-2024. The effect on the already alarming global fab overcapacity at that time will be dramatically magnified. Profits aren't made until fixed + variable costs are covered. It is impossible for these costs, let alone R&D, to be recouped if China comes anywhere close to self-sufficiency when China represents well over half the world's semiconductor consumption (domestic+re-export). When the current manic construction of fab capacity is completed between now and 2024, it will be synchronized with China's semiconductor self-sufficiency >=14nm. It will take time for China to ramp up scale but even so, sometime between 2026-2027, this will result in idle global fab capacity of something approaching 50% with costs increasing globally as reshoring happens in the US, Europe and Japan, all while margins crater. For those semiconductor companies who don't merge or go bankrupt, there will be the remainder who will be slashing multiyear R&D costs across the board. This will slow down semiconductor tech advance at the leading edge at the same time that China completely catches up in DUV and begins gradually catching up everywhere else at lower costs.

This is a nightmare scenario for the global semiconductor industry and nirvana for China's domestic industry. However, there's always the probability where the Anglo-American alliance engineer political and/or military solutions. I think this is highly likely given that they never seem to learn.
What are they gonna do politically that they haven't already done? And what are they gonna do militarily when they couldn't even beat Afghanistan?
 

krautmeister

Junior Member
Registered Member
What are they gonna do politically that they haven't already done? And what are they gonna do militarily when they couldn't even beat Afghanistan?
Unbelievable isn't it? They blew TRILLIONS and had nothing to show for it other than destitute homeless population exploding all over America. Afghanistan was an epic fail for the ages. Yet you have these numbskulls poking Russia and China at the same time. Who are these geniuses?
 

dfrtyhgj

Junior Member
Registered Member
@tokenanalyst WOW!!! 2023 the urgency is picking up and state is providing full support. In the long run SMIC may equal or dethrone TSMC, its China state Champion and I hope TSMC may not begrudge SMIC cause they share the same DNA, thanks to Richard Chang and Liang Mong Song....LOL
That's not a secret, China activated the same program that built the nuke in just FOUR years, this time, the program works on semis. The whole of nation approach is a proven winner and semis are a hell of a lot simpler than the nuke.
 
Last edited:

horse

Colonel
Registered Member
@antonius123 bro TSMC sounded an alarm last month of a possible glut in the market, cause they see all the expansion project in China may come to fruition in the next 2 years. They are relying on leading edge to see them thru and may cede the market of 28nm and 14nm to the Chinese. If Huawei and SMIC is able to mass produced its 7nm 3D stacking chipset in 2024 then its game over as the 5nm , 3nm and even 2nm all vying a small niche market.

Yeah brother, the writing is on the wall, insofar as the Chinese are concerned, and what they plan to do for the next couple of years.

People, especially in American TV, do not understand warfare.

The warfare, there is the center of gravity like Clausewitz said.

The center of gravity for the worldwide IC industry and supply chains, there are 2.

One center of gravity is China, because they demand more chips than all the chip markets in the rest of the world combined.

The other center of gravity, let's called it American-centric because some of that tech is American, and they used their sanctioning abilities to coerce compliance with their allies.

In integrated circuits industry, there are two centers of gravity, and they are diametrically opposed because one is China and the other is America. This is true warfare (without the kinetic action, unlike that airport in Kabul).



With China slowly improving it own IC capabilities, that itself creates another center of gravity. Although they are not at the leading edge yet, the CCP still would have capabilities to supply 80%-90% of the market.

So what happens, we are seeing today, is the world will have 3 center of gravity in IC, that China in IC will have 2 centers of gravity, while the American side still has 1.

That is the problem with the media.

1. They do not understand business.

2. Fine, if they do not understand business, at least the media can understand warfare, but no, they understand that even less.

What we saw from Pottinger et al during the reign of President Trump, was stupidity.

But the US media would not call them out on it, because they were too busy cheering, because they were too stupid to do anything else.

All they do is report how much less phones Huawei sells. How is that strength or victory? But then it gets too complicated and the media starts talking about something else.

Like helicopters and shat.

:p
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top