Chinese semiconductor industry

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antonius123

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antonius123 said:
Exactly.

There is Wassenaar Arrangement that US can use to prevent China from obtaining such components including light source etc, so it is not about competitive market force anymore. If the coverage still not include these items now, it could be, by US intention to thwart China. So funding alone won't be enough.

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This is the reason why it is still take time for China to build euv litography on par with ASML's, China need to build the ecosystem of the sophisticated components, she can't just buy from existing vendors because of the US technology content and Wassenaar Arrangement, apart from the accumulated experience. China huge market demand is not relevant anymore in this case.

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ansy1968

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Sincho said:
Huawei: "I'll be back."

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@Sincho Bro that Beijing FAB will use the SMEE 28NM DUVL and purely domestic equipment, hope it will be operation next year.


In the meantime, Beijing Economic-Technological Development Area (BDA) also marked the construction kickoff of another SMIC plant in the Chinese capital, with planned investment of US$7.6 billion,
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reported.

The Beijing facility, slated to be China’s largest 12-inch wafer plant, will be focused on more mature technologies – 28 nanometer and above. It has a planned capacity of 100,000 per month.
 
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Manni1950

Just Hatched
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I have 2 questions for the experts

1. China will be self-sufficient in 28 nm chips in 2021.
What self-sufficiency rate can we expect at the end of 2021 for 28 nm chips? What was the status in 2020?

2. China will become self-sufficient in 2022 in 14 nm chips.
What self-supply share can we assume at the end of 2022 for 14 nm chips? What is the status today?
 
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antonius123

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ansy1968 said:
@Sincho Bro that Beijing FAB will use the SMEE 28NM DUVL and purely domestic equipment, hope it will be operation next year.


In the meantime, Beijing Economic-Technological Development Area (BDA) also marked the construction kickoff of another SMIC plant in the Chinese capital, with planned investment of US$7.6 billion,
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reported.

The Beijing facility, slated to be China’s largest 12-inch wafer plant, will be focused on more mature technologies – 28 nanometer and above. It has a planned capacity of 100,000 per month.
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Huawei can't regain smartphone throne with outdated 28nm chip, 28nm is for low end smartphone now. Must be at least 7nm chip.

Perhaps it is the fab to produce 7nm chip, or maybe Huawei has reached maturity with graphene/photonic chipset? who knows.
 
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ougoah

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antonius123 said:
Huawei can't regain smartphone throne with outdated 28nm chip, 28nm is for low end smartphone now. Must be at least 7nm chip.

Perhaps it is the fab to produce 7nm chip, or maybe Huawei has reached maturity with graphene/photonic chipset? who knows.
Click to expand...

Even with alternative technologies and materials, it'll take much time to test and verify then set up entire supply chains to mass produce alternative technology "chips". Even if Huawei or whatever Chinese organisation has finished verifying and testing graphene based chip technologies, it'll take several years to set up production within acceptable tolerances and of course to the desired scale. At the moment, all that stuff is reportedly only at lab demonstration level even if they are promising.

If Huawei is confident in producing competitive smartphones using only Chinese chips, it'll certainly be because Chinese supplier ecosystems can deliver 7nm within several years time at the latest. Or Huawei is referring to being competitive globally again based on only Chinese chips in 10+ years time or however long it takes for Chinese domestic suppliers to meet or exceed Taiwan and South Korea as they are moving forwards too. So that 10+ years was my arbitrary guess.
 
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Tyler

Captain
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antonius123 said:
China faces 2 problems regarding the chip:
1. Self sufficiency (as China's import chips much more than oil)
2. Technology gap 2 generation with the leaders.

For problem no 1 it is not so difficult to overcome, China has invest a lot for 28nm and 14nm the technology that is within China's reach and the node that most used in the market now.

But for the problem no 2, it is the most difficult, I dont see China can close the gap with the leader within 5 years ahead if China only follow the same pattern, because of the EUV Lithography which is the marvel of the technology, and seems the moores law is still valid till 1nm or even beyond.

I think China has to invest a lot on R&D of the graphene or photonic chip and push it hard to make it into reality as soon as possible so that china chip performance can reach even surpass the level of the market leaders sooner without the needs of the most advanced EUV litography. It is very urgent for China if China want to be the leader in technology. China can't afford to wait more than 5 years because otherwise during that period Chinese smartphone and telco industry will be at US mercy: US can ban Unisoc/Xiaomi/Oppo/Vivo/Lenovo to get the most advanced equipment and chip to give way Samsung & Apple to rule market in high end products.
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If Xiaomi got banned, China will ban Samsung and Apple soon.
 
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antonius123

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Tyler said:
If Xiaomi got banned, China will ban Samsung and Apple soon.
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Samsung market share in China is getting smaller and smaller; it seems the ban game will profitting Samsung more, because while loosing Chinese market, Samsung will get more international market left by Xiaomi and OPPO due to chip shortage suffered by Xiaomi, OPPO due to ban imposed by US on them. But of course this is the game that US must consider carefully otherwise could be backfire to her.
 
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ansy1968

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antonius123 said:
Huawei can't regain smartphone throne with outdated 28nm chip, 28nm is for low end smartphone now. Must be at least 7nm chip.

Perhaps it is the fab to produce 7nm chip, or maybe Huawei has reached maturity with graphene/photonic chipset? who knows.
Click to expand...
@antonius123 bro from what I learn from @WTAN and @foofy , Huawei is working on its 14nm 3D stacking chipset if successful is equivalent to TSMC 7nm DUV chip which is good for mid range phone. Everybody expect the domestic 7nm processes to be ready in 2023. Staying in the game is what count as @Sincho stated in his previous post, even though its a mid range phone, Huawei objective is to make Harmony OS widely use worldwide.
 
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antonius123

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ansy1968 said:
@antonius123 bro from what I learn from @WTAN and @foofy , Huawei is working on its 14nm 3D stacking chipset if successful is equivalent to TSMC 7nm DUV chip which is good for mid range phone. Everybody expect the domestic 7nm processes to be ready in 2023. Staying in the game is what count as @Sincho stated in his previous post, even though its a mid range phone, Huawei objective is to make Harmony OS widely use worldwide.
Click to expand...

Bro, by 2023, smartphone with 2nm chipset will be introduced, and smartphone with 3nm SOC will be available in many smartphones already, and smartphone with 5nm will be considered mid range, and 7nm will be considered between mid to lower range.
 
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