Chinese semiconductor industry

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Hendrik_2000

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Orthan said:
CNBC article about semiconductors. The gap betwen smic and tsmc may widen further.

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Not surprising coming from Taiwan analyst But that what they said before with Beidou satellite and they did embargo the atomic clock and has only 2 years to complete the beidou program before the offer for frequency expired. all along with no Atomic clock. Yet China prevail watch this video
Again and again China confounded their skeptic from A bomb, CNC to Beidou, AWAC, Server Chip, Turbo fan, Large Transporter, Civilian aircraft. Weapon embargo. EV battery, Autonomous driving, AI the list is long.

Actually when it come to Semi production China is on the cusp of independent with company like AMEC, Naura, SMEE building the latest in semi fabrication tool the only missing ingredient is the support of domestic fab . Building semi eqpt is not isolated thing you to work with the FAB. Now that those fab are banned they have no alternative but working with domestic supplier Yes it is perfect timing!

 
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quantumlight

quantumlight

Junior Member
Registered Member
Orthan said:
CNBC article about semiconductors. The gap betwen smic and tsmc may widen further.

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In the 21st century, a full chip embargo is a declaration of war. Instead of competing fairly the US resorts to destruction to keep others down so it can get ahead by cheating...

When the gap between TSMC and SMIC widens too much because of this US imposed dynamic or when US finally dropped the full ban hammer and does a complete IC embargo against China then China has nothing left to lose and will be compelled to use its DongFeng missiles to surgically strike TSMC and flatten Tiawan's semiconductor industry, thereby using the same tactic the US first employed to slow down the competition by destructive means, which will pause the advanced semiconductor industry and market for a good few years, allowing China time to catch up and bridging the gap..

Once Tiawan's economy is destroyed when TSMC gets flattened, and when Tiawan no longer hold the same level of strategic value for the US, then China can proceed with forced reunification and at that point the US will have much less incentive to get militarily involved in terms of any intervenion in a mainland China reunification operation.
 
H

hkbc

Junior Member
quantumlight said:
In the 21st century, a full chip embargo is a declaration of war. Instead of competing fairly the US resorts to destruction to keep others down so it can get ahead by cheating...

When the gap between TSMC and SMIC widens too much because of this US imposed dynamic or when US finally dropped the full ban hammer and does a complete IC embargo against China then China has nothing left to lose and will be compelled to use its DongFeng missiles to surgically strike TSMC and flatten Tiawan's semiconductor industry, thereby using the same tactic the US first employed to slow down the competition by destructive means, which will pause the advanced semiconductor industry and market for a good few years, allowing China time to catch up and bridging the gap..

Once Tiawan's economy is destroyed when TSMC gets flattened, and when Tiawan no longer hold the same level of strategic value for the US, then China can proceed with forced reunification and at that point the US will have much less incentive to get militarily involved in terms of any intervenion in a mainland China reunification operation.
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Someone's been at the solvents again! Meanwhile in the real world............
 
manqiangrexue

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
quantumlight said:
In the 21st century, a full chip embargo is a declaration of war. Instead of competing fairly the US resorts to destruction to keep others down so it can get ahead by cheating...

When the gap between TSMC and SMIC widens too much because of this US imposed dynamic or when US finally dropped the full ban hammer and does a complete IC embargo against China then China has nothing left to lose and will be compelled to use its DongFeng missiles to surgically strike TSMC and flatten Tiawan's semiconductor industry, thereby using the same tactic the US first employed to slow down the competition by destructive means, which will pause the advanced semiconductor industry and market for a good few years, allowing China time to catch up and bridging the gap..

Once Tiawan's economy is destroyed when TSMC gets flattened, and when Tiawan no longer hold the same level of strategic value for the US, then China can proceed with forced reunification and at that point the US will have much less incentive to get militarily involved in terms of any intervenion in a mainland China reunification operation.
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This assumes that America's chip embargo actually works and China becomes desperate enough to do something like that. Actually, what we are seeing is that China is making steady and fast progress building its tech to fully defeat any chip ban with its own technology. The US will resort to more and more desperate attempts that will be less and less effective while China will calmly overcome each one without resorting to any desperate tactics. In this way, China will subject the US to the most painful fate that it hoped to avoid which is to watch helplessly as it is gradually overtaken and replaced as the world's premier power.
 
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voyager1

Captain
Registered Member
I dont know why people keep blaming and accusing the US.

The fault is clearly China's. The original sin is weakness.

China allowed itself to become dependent to West Tech.
China worshipped and it is still worshpping white technology and products (see the example of the ex-head of the chinese company who was surprised by the Biden sanctions lol)

The US is following its strategy and it is logical that it doesn't want its IP to help their enemy, China.
So, Chinese people should blame Chinese companies, their managers/CEOs and ultimately their governent for allowing China to become overdependent on Western IP.

Strong are strong, and weak are weak. Weakness is a fault, and China is now paying dearly for their weakness.
 
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ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
Hendrik_2000 said:
Not surprising coming from Taiwan analyst But that what they said before with Beidou satellite and they did embargo the atomic clock and has only 2 years to complete the beidou program before the offer for frequency expired. all along with no Atomic clock. Yet China prevail watch this video
Again and again China confounded their skeptic from A bomb, CNC to Beidou, AWAC, Server Chip, Turbo fan, Large Transporter, Civilian aircraft. Weapon embargo. EV battery, Autonomous driving, AI the list is long

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@Hendrik_2000 bro that news cycle is getting old, we know that SMIC N+1 and N+2 will be mass produce this year, It might not be the latest but at least a generation behind. Trump sanction of Chinese tech is a shocker but now is kinda normal. You see how calm Beijing is means that their plan is on the works. I'm just waiting for our esteem members for the latest news, the important thing is and I'm keep on repeating is that the 28nm is fully indigenizes, while hoping the same for 14nm next year (this year may not materialized due to works being done to SMEE 28NM verification) and 7nm 2023. Past mistake had been internalized, being committed to international trade rules had its drawback especially when the US keep changing the rules and its a lesson well learn.
 
S

SpicySichuan

Senior Member
Registered Member
quantumlight said:
Yup sports is useless, its nukes, chips, AI and fusion in that order
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I would put aero turbofan engines behind nukes, as it is a much more serious emergency than chips. At least China could achieve self-sufficiency in 28nm chips, which is already not bad at all. Also, you don't necessarily need 7nm chips to build smart loitering munitions or supercomputers. But when it comes to turbofan engines, China is 30 years behind the West. Yet, turbofan engines are directly related to the success or failures of cruise missiles, fighter planes, marine propulsion, passenger jets, transport plants, you name it. Therefore, it should theoretically be the second most important strategic technological sector after nuclear weapons/reactors/reprocessing in terms of regime survival.
 
Xizor

Xizor

Captain
Registered Member
SpicySichuan said:
I would put aero turbofan engines behind nukes, as it is a much more serious emergency than chips. At least China could achieve self-sufficiency in 28nm chips, which is already not bad at all. Also, you don't necessarily need 7nm chips to build smart loitering munitions or supercomputers. But when it comes to turbofan engines, China is 30 years behind the West. Yet, turbofan engines are directly related to the success or failures of cruise missiles, fighter planes, marine propulsion, passenger jets, transport plants, you name it. Therefore, it should theoretically be the second most important strategic technological sector after nuclear weapons/reactors/reprocessing in terms of regime survival.
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Chips are the number one priority.
Aeroengines are easy compared to semiconductors. China is not desperate enough in Aeoengines as compared to Chips. China has the HSR netwok to compensate for fast inter country long distance travel.

But semiconductors have no alternatives. The 21st century economy is built upon semiconductors and computing , softwares, internet, social media etc.

Without semiconductors , all the big Chinese companies like Alibaba, Tencent, NIO, Huawei etc will go bust. Period.
 
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voyager1

Captain
Registered Member
Xsizor said:
Chips are the number one priority.
Aeroengines are easy compared to semiconductors. China is not desperate enough in Aeoengines as compared to Chips. China has the HSR netwok to compensate for fast inter country long distance travel.

But semiconductors have no alternatives. The 21st century economy is built upon semiconductors and computing , softwares, internet, social media etc.

Without semiconductors , all the big Chinese companies like Alibaba, Tencent, NIO, Huawei etc will go bust. Period.
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Agreed. Chips are the new oil. Do you know a country that can function without oil?

The same applies with chips. If there are no chips the economy would implode. Thats not me being dramatic but thats the reality.

The good thing is that China can make old chips however it urgently needs to make advanced chips
 
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gadgetcool5

Senior Member
Registered Member
China needs to be doing a lot more. As I mentioned before, basic research and applied research R&D must match the level of the combined alliance arrayed against it (less China's allies like Pakistan and Russia, but those are virtually negligible), PLUS what's required to catch up. In other words, a huge amount of investment.

Further, China needs to revamp the education system from the ground up to provide a lot more incentives for students to study science and technology. Like discounted tuition and fees, school-to-jobs pipelines with guaranteed income, subsidized housing, etc.
 
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