Chinese semiconductor industry

Oldschool said:

Which company would China wants?
Amazon or ASML ? Revenue wise no comparison. But Amazon tech cannot used to sanction China
End of day, fundamental science is what matters not applications
That's why US doesn't really care Baidu, Alibaba, tencent.. all their big data , AI is no biggie.
Pig, fish, coal are auxiliary helping Huawei bottomeline while focusing on its long term goal. It's destiny is to bring China semiconductor to the promised land.

Click to expand...

If free trade was still thing, you'd pick Amazon over ASML - an Amazon is going to create wealth much more efficiently and add much higher value to the economy than a ASML. Unfortunately, in the context of the current geopolitical landscape of great power competition, you would also need your own ASML in order to guarantee your supply chains are self-sufficient and do not have links subject to foreign control / interference.

For China - this isn't really a choice - it needs both. And there is no reason China cannot have both - having one or the other is not mutually exclusive - there are no resource constraints to take into consideration.

The reason the US doesn't care about companies like Tencent, Alibaba, Baidu is that these companies are essentially irrelevant outside of China. If these companies began offering cloud computing infrastructure and services outside of China and were competing for market share against Amazon/Microsoft/Google, does anyone really think the US will just stand idly by?

FriedRiceNSpice said:

It would actually be much more profitable for Huawei to supply the OS, IP, app market, software and chip designs for other phone makers than making its own phones. Instead of being Apple or Samsung, Huawei can aim to be another Google. Google enjoys much higher profit margins in the mobile phone sector than Apple or Samsung.

Click to expand...

Google makes its own smartphones - Pixel. Just that it's not very successful. It's unwise and unnecessary to give up one of the most lucrative businesses as long as the Huawei smartphone business is successful. Huawei doesn't have to choose one for another.

Google is basically an advertisement company. Google has been providing online services free of charge with ads and making profits from ads. People became so reliant on Google, so did they on Android with Google services preinstalled. Now people are willing to pay for Google services because they can't live without Google. Other OS failed because they had no Google. This business model isn't quite suitable for Huawei.

A fundamental problem of Android is that software and hardware are separately developed by different companies, which means software isn't optimized for specific hardware and each maker makes modifications to the stock Android, which causes the fragmentation problem. That's also a reason why people say Android devices run inefficiently while Apple products work more smoothly even at lower hardware spec. By Huawei making both hardware and software together and making the software open to third parties, they can take advantages of both Android and iOS. Unlike Google which doesn't do well in hardware market, Huawei is good at hardware. By only making software only, Huawei not only loses its strength but also replicates the current problem of Android.

Other smartphone makers would not adopt Huawei's OS instead of Android. There already is Android and most customers globally want Google services. Most major smartphone makers already have their own apps and app store in addition to Google Play Store and Google apps.

Huawei only started to push for its own apps and OS because they had no other choice. They could no longer use Google. Even though Huawei said they had been preparing for HarmonyOS before sanction, I still don't believe they would have pushed all of what Huawei is doing now if they were not denied Google. Thus needless to say about other smartphone makers, even Chinese ones.

So it seems like the US will continue in its campaign to takedown Chinese technology companies, at this point, there is really no compromise in sight. China will need to persevere and prepare for a protracted technology war against the US and its proxies

I really hope that China does not over-regulate its tech sector. It's one thing to go after antitrust, data privacy, etc. it's another thing to keep announcing new campaigns against companies and tanking their stock in a never ending campaign to destroy any new business, or destroy value you can get from AI on consumer behavior.

Remember, whatever new technologies are going to be important 20, 30 years from now it is impossible for the government to guess. The government can only invest in basic research, but the private sector is far more efficient at finding applications, gaining revenue and keeping the technology competitive.

The government is like a soccer player sitting on the sidelines yelling at the players to run faster. The private companies are the actual players in a competitive environment who will go bankrupt if they do not play well. So the latter are very important.

gadgetcool5 said:

I really hope that China does not over-regulate its tech sector. It's one thing to go after antitrust, data privacy, etc. it's another thing to keep announcing new campaigns against companies and tanking their stock in a never ending campaign to destroy any new business, or destroy value you can get from AI on consumer behavior.

Remember, whatever new technologies are going to be important 20, 30 years from now it is impossible for the government to guess. The government can only invest in basic research, but the private sector is far more efficient at finding applications, gaining revenue and keeping the technology competitive.

The government is like a soccer player sitting on the sidelines yelling at the players to run faster. The private companies are the actual players in a competitive environment who will go bankrupt if they do not play well. So the latter are very important.

Click to expand...

Alibaba needs to regulate because it's over leveraging on its loans and use Chinese banks to absorb all the risks and yet it doesn't risk anything. Ponzi scheme.

coolieno99 said:

China has the largest fish farm industry in the world.

Click to expand...

Yes. This is a little off-topic in the semiconductor thread, but I thought many people would be interested in the following fact: , China produces more farmed fish than the rest of the world, combined. "Chinese fish farmers contributed 62 percent to the world’s farmed food fish production in 2015."

(The FAO is the Food and Agriculture Organization, an arm of the United Nations.)

The same article states that 73% of China's fish is farmed, and only 27% captured. So the next time you hear that China's fishermen are stealing fish from other countries like Vietnam or Argentina, you should realize that this is probably not the country's policy. China as a whole has little need to steal fish; the incursions are by private thieves.

Nutrient said:

Yes. This is a little off-topic in the semiconductor thread, but I thought many people would be interested in the following fact:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

, China produces more farmed fish than the rest of the world, combined. "Chinese fish farmers contributed 62 percent to the world’s farmed food fish production in 2015."

(The FAO is the Food and Agriculture Organization, an arm of the United Nations.)

Click to expand...

The worrying concern in aquaculture and agriculture is the increasing use of antibiotics wherever it may be.

Oldschool said:

The one urgently need 7nm production is Huawei. But SMIC won't do it without US approval even if it get a hold of those equipments and materials. Others not under sanction so they can use Samsung or TSMC.
Short term getting a hold of 7nm won't change China too much. Domestic tech ology is the key in changing China..

Click to expand...

SMIC need to abide China law, not America.

foofy said:

SMIC need to abide China law, not America.

Click to expand...

Yeah!

Those noises from management, like, oh! We are so scared! We will obey America!

Yeah, right.

We quickly realize that in the business world, half the stuff you hear, that is all bs. In contrast to the American political world, virtually all the stuff we hear is bs.

If SMIC management said that, oh! We so scared! We so scared of America! Then maybe the Americans being satisfied, will look the other way, not paying attention. Regardless, SMIC will do whatever they want to do anyways. That is just business. Saying, we so scared! Makes it more fun.

Once SMIC gets to 7nm and starts to evade Americans sanctions legally, they will make a fool of America. This part of the tech war is over. It is kind of futile for the Americans at that stage, to demand audits and inspections on Chinese territory of SMIC.

Then they rub it in their faces by saying, oh! We so scared!

foofy said:

SMIC need to abide China law, not America.

Click to expand...

SMIC I heard has alot of Taiwanese influence and atmosphere in it's working environment.

If SMIC going to supply Huawei regardless then this move would be unnecessary. This move only means it will abide US law.