Chinese semiconductor industry

european_guy said:

I mean even lithography tools, that are the most bounded for a specific process node, can be used on a somewhat wide node range. For instance ASML 1980Di can be used for 28nm, but also at 14nm and IIRC TSMC used it for their first 7nm.

Click to expand...

Now that we have come to the years end can the highly experienced people please compile a detailed list as to how far the Chinese companies have come in terms of process node equipments.

I am very much aware that an equipment say CVD for 5nm can be used for 28nm but I don't think it works the other way. A CVD which is just good for 28nm is not precise and accurate enough for 5nm

Example,
CCP Etch is at 7nm++ if I recall correctly.
ICP Etch (not sure)
CVD
PVD
ALD
Ion Implant
Metrology (one of the weaker points last time I checked)
CMP
Rapid Thermal Oxidation
Wafer Cleaning
Lithography (amazing how I've been eyeing Chinese Lithography development since 2019 and still nothing concrete. I realized at that time this is the most difficult task to crack specially since in China there are no 2 companies actively competing with eachother, I think that's the main reason why Lithography is taking so long)

Wahid145 said:

Lithography (amazing how I've been eyeing Chinese Lithography development since 2019 and still nothing concrete. I realized at that time this is the most difficult task to crack specially since in China there are no 2 companies actively competing with eachother, I think that's the main reason why Lithography is taking so long)

Click to expand...

you again completely ignored CIOMP/SIOMP and Harbin contribution ..

in EUV, two major institutes are competing. CIOMP and SIOMP

in DUV, SMEE is the major contractor but on lower end, two more companies joined the race like CETC.

SMEE's DUVi verification might complete by next year mid.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
how many times do i need to tell you. SMEE has nothing to do with EUV. their responsibility is to bring DUVi. stop

for EUV, different institutes are working. so technically. China have multiple players in Litho industry ..

i was just browsing today and saw that Rockchip 3568J core board system (SOM-TL3568) for AIoT is fully domestic


uses rockchip CPU
Gigadevice/CXMTT DDr
Rockchip PMIC
LongSys eMMC

Looks like SMIC Lingang project is going to start operations soon. It has received permit now for urban sewage discharge until Dec 2028

ChangHong has signed MOU with BOE for deepening cooperation in 2024, I assume this is just ChangHong using more BOE product


The great thing about having so many domestic OEMs is that suppliers like BOE can increase market share more easily.

sunnymaxi said:

Wahid145 said:

Lithography (amazing how I've been eyeing Chinese Lithography development since 2019 and still nothing concrete. I realized at that time this is the most difficult task to crack specially since in China there are no 2 companies actively competing with eachother, I think that's the main reason why Lithography is taking so long)

Click to expand...

you again completely ignored CIOMP/SIOMP and Harbin contribution ..

in EUV, two major institutes are competing. CIOMP and SIOMP

in DUV, SMEE is the major contractor but on lower end, two more companies joined the race like CETC.

SMEE's DUVi verification might complete by next year mid.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
how many times do i need to tell you. SMEE has nothing to do with EUV. their responsibility is to bring DUVi. stop

for EUV, different institutes are working. so technically. China have multiple players in Litho industry ..

Click to expand...

"the best way to get the right answer on the internet is not to ask a question; it's to post the wrong answer." -

In all seriousness, China is making serious strides in lithography development, much of it is not publicized until long long after the fact when we see serial production of chips at high-volumes. It will never be 'officially confirmed' - Huawei still hasn't officially confirmed 5G or 7nm chips, and good luck dissecting a chip to confirm if it's made by ASML DUV or SMEE DUV.

sunnymaxi said:

you again completely ignored CIOMP/SIOMP and Harbin contribution ..

in EUV, two major institutes are competing. CIOMP and SIOMP

in DUV, SMEE is the major contractor but on lower end, two more companies joined the race like CETC.

SMEE's DUVi verification might complete by next year mid.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
how many times do i need to tell you. SMEE has nothing to do with EUV. their responsibility is to bring DUVi. stop

for EUV, different institutes are working. so technically. China have multiple players in Litho industry ..

Click to expand...

Relax! I am keenly aware of the EUV development projects, what matters is in 2023 December we don't have a viable EUV Lithography from China. In 2024, 2025, 2026? Sure but not as of right now!

Wahid145 said:

Relax! I am keenly aware of the EUV development projects, what matters is in 2023 December we don't have a viable EUV Lithography from China. In 2024, 2025, 2026? Sure but not as of right now!

Click to expand...

Huawei/SMIC yet to announce 5G chip with 7nm process officially.. they have 7nm process since 2021 but publicly revealed in 2023..

SSA800i currently under verification and we are close to HVM. means completion of verification then small scale production will start.

and forget about official announcement of DUVi until China start full serial production of chips with local machine. this is how China works..

sunnymaxi said:

you again completely ignored CIOMP/SIOMP and Harbin contribution ..

in EUV, two major institutes are competing. CIOMP and SIOMP

in DUV, SMEE is the major contractor but on lower end, two more companies joined the race like CETC.

SMEE's DUVi verification might complete by next year mid.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
how many times do i need to tell you. SMEE has nothing to do with EUV. their responsibility is to bring DUVi. stop

for EUV, different institutes are working. so technically. China have multiple players in Litho industry ..

Click to expand...

LMAO, Are you phishing? 28nm DUVI has been completed by the end of 2022， 7nm duvi will be completed in 2023

在活动自由交流环节，有学生向朱煜提问其课题组研发的工件台和ASML公司差距。朱煜回应称：目前课题组研制的工件台在大的代际上与ASML公司最先进工件台（2000系列以上产品）处于同一水平。但在小的代际上与ASML的2000系列以上产品还存在一代的差距，再迭代一次后就可以追上国际先进水平

“工件台”means the dual-stage system