Chinese semiconductor industry

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LanceD23

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tokenanalyst said:
If its completely domestic, could be, I know the Shanghai Integrated Circuit Equipment Materials Industry Innovation Center is running purely domestic fabs with SMEE scanners, Naura and others equipment manufacturers tools but these are small-medium production runs to test equipments, materials, parts and solve production problems.​
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from the old thread , members already mentioned dry scanners being made in 2021 by two different vendors.
Now it's almost 2024, that scanners should be out already and being used? I am interested in look at the new lens stack up. what NA is for 65nm?

WTAN​

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ansy1968 said:
@WTAN as you mentioned before maybe CETC may have a 28nm or 22nm DUVL project in conjunction with SMEE?
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CETC is currently beginning to mass produce its 65nm Resolution or 45nm Node Dry DUVL.
This can produce 45nm Chips with single exposure.
The next step for CETC is to produce a 28nm Node Immersion DUVL which is similar to the latest SMEE model.
I believe they are already working on this 28nm DUVL and we might see something soon.
More competition is good for the Lithograph Industry in China.
CETC is quickly catching up to SMEE and might one day surpass it.
CETC is a much larger company and has more resources and finances to develop new products.
SMEE has more experience in Lithographs but i think it lacks financial resources and talent.
CETC might end up producing a EUVL as well, maybe before SME
 
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tokenanalyst

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LanceD23 said:
from the old thread , members already mentioned dry scanners being made in 2021 by two different vendors.
Now it's almost 2024, that scanners should be out already and being used? I am interested in look at the new lens stack up. what NA is for 65nm?

WTAN​

Junior Member​

Registered Member

CETC is currently beginning to mass produce its 65nm Resolution or 45nm Node Dry DUVL.
This can produce 45nm Chips with single exposure.
The next step for CETC is to produce a 28nm Node Immersion DUVL which is similar to the latest SMEE model.
I believe they are already working on this 28nm DUVL and we might see something soon.
More competition is good for the Lithograph Industry in China.
CETC is quickly catching up to SMEE and might one day surpass it.
CETC is a much larger company and has more resources and finances to develop new products.
SMEE has more experience in Lithographs but i think it lacks financial resources and talent.
CETC might end up producing a EUVL as well, maybe before SME
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As far as I know CETC has a company that makes lithography systems called Jinhua Hi Tech but as far as I know the make automated mask aligner "And yes those are still lithography systems" not projection lithography like SMEE does.
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I don't know what exclusivity lithography subsystems manufacturers like RSLaser, Guowang Optics, Gopptix, CheerTech, UPrecision and others have with SMEE, if there is not exclusivity then is possible for other companies to get these subsystems to make their own projection lithography systems but still there is the issue of integration, vibration dampening, overlay metrology, temperature controls, electrical noise control, internal atmosphere control and many many other issues. SMEE has been part of project02 since 2002, CETC does not.​
 
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latenlazy

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tokenanalyst said:
As far as I know CETC has a company that makes lithography systems called Jinhua Hi Tech but as far as I know the make automated mask aligner "And yes those are still lithography systems" not projection lithography like SMEE does.
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I don't know what exclusivity lithography subsystems manufacturers like RSLaser, Guowang Optics, Gopptix, CheerTech, UPrecision and others have with SMEE, if there is not exclusivity then is possible for other companies to get these subsystems to make their own projection lithography systems but still there is the issue of integration, vibration dampening, overlay metrology, temperature controls, electrical noise control, internal atmosphere control and many many other issues. SMEE has been part of project02 since 2002, CETC does not.​
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CETC might have their own internal expertise on these different engineering parameters though from other hardware they build. And of course they can always hire expertise.
 
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tonyget

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LanceD23 said:
CETC is currently beginning to mass produce its 65nm Resolution or 45nm Node Dry DUVL.
This can produce 45nm Chips with single exposure.
Click to expand...

Where is the source says that CETC 65nm machine can produce 45nm Chips with single exposure？
 
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tokenanalyst

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latenlazy said:
CETC might have their own internal expertise on these different engineering parameters though from other hardware they build. And of course they can always hire expertise.
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Yeah of course. We can speculate that they could be in the R&D phase for projection lithography systems if the have access to the same high end lithography subsystems as SMEE does.
 
sunnymaxi

sunnymaxi

Major
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LanceD23 said:
SMEE has more experience in Lithographs but i think it lacks financial resources and talent.
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have been sorted out .. SMEE grown from roughly 200 to 2300+ members in last 3 years..

LanceD23 said:
CETC might end up producing a EUVL as well, maybe before SME
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both CETC and SMEE are not eligible to enter in EUV project. SMEE is only responsible to bring DUVi. project02

different institutes are working on EUV project. CIOMP/SIOMP/Harbin .. you might know this
 
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tinrobert

Junior Member
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sunnymaxi said:
have been sorted out .. SMEE grown from roughly 200 to 2300+ members in last 3 years..


both CETC and SMEE are not eligible to enter in EUV project. SMEE is only responsible to bring DUVi. project02

different institutes are working on EUV project. CIOMP/SIOMP/Harbin .. you might know this
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Lithography is progressing in China, but ancillary equipment to support it (deposition, etch) is growing from domestic equipment companies. You can read my recent article on China sanctions here, entitled "ASML: U.S. Tech Sanctions On China Are Backfiring"
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supersnoop

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GiantPanda said:
No, Patel meant exactly what he said. CMXT breaks sanctions by researching sub 18nm processes. He thinks (or hopes) the US will explicitly sanction CMXT.

That said, any Chinese company that won't advance itself to avoid US sanctions is dead in the Chinese marketplace anyways. So unless CMXT wants to die, it'll need to break sanctions.
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As far as I know, sanctions are in place to not sell (or service) any equipment capable of manufacturing advanced nodes, GaA, FinFETs. There is nothing about research, how could you even enforce that?
 
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latenlazy

Brigadier
sunnymaxi said:
have been sorted out .. SMEE grown from roughly 200 to 2300+ members in last 3 years..


both institutes/firms are not eligible to enter in EUV project. SMEE is only responsible to bring DUVi. project02
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Yah I’m very curious to see who CAS hands off the EUV commercialization project to once the prototype testing is done but it's probably going to be a newly formed firm since so much of the core technologies are going to be new.
 
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