Chinese semiconductor industry

Status
Not open for further replies.

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Two years? What does it mean? YMTC's 232L TLC chips and 232L QLC chips went into market earlier than any other companies.
Both Micron & Hynix had >10K wpm of 2xxL 3D-NAND as far back as 1Q22. No one considered that as the 'N' node. YMTC was ramping its 232L close to 10K wpm then last October's US BIS restriction came in. Since then, its 232L output has been very limited. YMTC's 100K wpm capacity is split between 128L & 64L 3D-NAND at the moment. Their 'N' node is considerred to be 128L node.
The Big4 of 3D-NAND all have significant volume at 176L nodes and above. This is probably why the comment on YMTC being '2yrs behind'.
The last I checked, Micron is already running both their 232L & 276L 3D-NAND at monthly volume at each nodes higher than YMTC ever had with their 232L. If we consider 10-30K wpm as significant volume, then YMTC is technically behind Micron by ~2-3 nodes. So I think the article claiming '2 years behind' is being kind. Micron is leading the 3D-NAND technology race, but their over volume is mere 50% larger than YMTC at the moment, so they don't make much impact on the over-all scheme of thing in the 3D-NAND market either.
TechInsights said that the Micron 2xxL 3D-NAND, although announced to have entered volume production before, showed up in the market AFTER YMTC's 2xxL. YMTC had the first 2xxL 3D-NAND in the market.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

"Now, by skipping the release of a 176-layer solution, YMTC has jumped directly into developing and mass-producing the 232-layer Xtacking3.0, which is the first 200+ layer solution we’ve found on the market. It’s the most advanced product with the highest bit density and the highest number of layers ever in the 3D NAND field.

Given that Micron just started to ship 232L NAND SSD for PCs and laptops, Samsung has successfully developed 232L custom samples, and SK Hynix’s 238L development is ongoing now, YMTC’s new 232L Xtacking3.0 TLC technology is a disruptive one and it may lead the future of 3D NAND technology."


Claiming that YMTC is two years behind technology wise is bollocks.
 

tokenanalyst

Brigadier
Registered Member
The original plan of YMTC was to build Fab 1, and eventually expand the site with another two Fabs (2 and 3). Each fab was originally planned to have 100K wafers per month capacity. 300K wafers per month total capacity with all three fabs when the site is complete. If you look at the satellite photos, Fab 1 and Fab 2 have been built and "Fab 3" is still a vacant lot with no building in it.

Fab 2 last I checked seemed to have half the air conditioner units attached to the building operational. I would guess that Fab 1 is fully operational with 100K wafers per month, and Fab 2 likely is operating at half capacity with 50K wafers per month. So my guess would be 150K wafers per month total right now.

View attachment 121731
The issue is how many of those 150K are 232L NAND wafers per month using this XTacking 3.0 technology.

XTACKING ARCHITECTURE: YMTC’S NAND MEMORY CENTERPIECE

At the very heart of the manufacture of all YMTC’s 3D NAND chips is the Xtacking approach. Known as YMTC’s hallmark, Xtacking involves the use of two separate wafers, whereas only one wafer is traditionally employed. It consists of building the NAND dies by joining a CMOS wafer and a NAND array wafer face to face, the two wafers being bonded together using metal pads. Both wafers can be manufactured simultaneously, enabling the manufacturer to shorten the production cycle in case of high memory demand.

A cross-sectional view of the die shows that two decks of alternating tungsten wordlines and SiO layers are formed one after the other. This method was adopted to reduce high aspect ratio etching. If built in one deck, the etch channel aspect ratio would have been 109:1, which would have resulted in very complex trench etching and filling processes and a higher etch defect number.

1700603793523.png


-Due etching ratios constrains look like they have to built the decks in stages, depending on the etching equipment the are using AMEC 3DNAND etchers or mature LAM etchers or advanced LAM etchers, will affect the final yield. Another factor is WCVD tools, AMEC launched their WCVD tools this year but remain to see how their deposition rate is compared to banned tools or if YMTC have enough banned tools as disposal.

1700603827676.png


The strategy is always to find the right balance between yield losses and the cost induced by repeating the etching process. Two hundred fifty-three wordlines are observed in the vertical NAND string; 128 layers form Deck 1 and 125 form deck 2. Besides the 232 active layers, the remaining ones are divided between dummy and selection layers.

Yole SystemPlus identified the use of a hybrid direct bonding technique to build chemical-free copper-to-copper interconnects that join the wafers together introduced by YMTC in memory manufacturing. Physical interaction between the dielectric material and the copper metal from the two wafers forms a strong bond. The bonding interface is further strengthened by plasma treatment of the surfaces and a thermal/annealing process. With this technique, YMTC is able to scale the bonding pad pitch down to 0.8 µm. In addition, accurate pad alignment is observed, with a pad mismatch of 22 nm representing only 6% of the pad surface.
 

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
View attachment 121722

Is kind of incredible that the exports of lithography equipment to China from the Netherlands is probably higher than all of their other exports combine.
21 lithography machines for $672m. IIRC, each Arf dry is $20m and Arfi is $60m, krf is maybe $10-15m? Maybe half of that is Arfi scanner.

The original plan of YMTC was to build Fab 1, and eventually expand the site with another two Fabs (2 and 3). Each fab was originally planned to have 100K wafers per month capacity. 300K wafers per month total capacity with all three fabs when the site is complete. If you look at the satellite photos, Fab 1 and Fab 2 have been built and "Fab 3" is still a vacant lot with no building in it.

Fab 2 last I checked seemed to have half the air conditioner units attached to the building operational. I would guess that Fab 1 is fully operational with 100K wafers per month, and Fab 2 likely is operating at half capacity with 50K wafers per month. So my guess would be 150K wafers per month total right now.

View attachment 121731
I would imagine they are still trialing out production line at Fab 2.

Maybe they have half the AC units installed, but production would certainly trail that. And even if they are trialing out new line, it will take a while. I would imagine they are trialing out a de-americanized process right now. Once that is validated, they can ramp up

also, i'm not sure why we got in an argument about whether 232-layer is in production? I mean if you don't think they have more than token production volume, that still doesn't prevent them from having the capability to produce it and develop 300+ layers? If you do think they have more than token production volume, then that's fine too. They certainly don't have enough volume currently to really affect the market.

More interesting for me is when they start appearing in more domestic phones. I still don't understand why Huawei is not using YMTC SSDs? What is wrong with them?
 

Maikeru

Captain
Registered Member
21 lithography machines for $672m. IIRC, each Arf dry is $20m and Arfi is $60m, krf is maybe $10-15m? Maybe half of that is Arfi scanner.


I would imagine they are still trialing out production line at Fab 2.

Maybe they have half the AC units installed, but production would certainly trail that. And even if they are trialing out new line, it will take a while. I would imagine they are trialing out a de-americanized process right now. Once that is validated, they can ramp up

also, i'm not sure why we got in an argument about whether 232-layer is in production? I mean if you don't think they have more than token production volume, that still doesn't prevent them from having the capability to produce it and develop 300+ layers? If you do think they have more than token production volume, then that's fine too. They certainly don't have enough volume currently to really affect the market.

More interesting for me is when they start appearing in more domestic phones. I still don't understand why Huawei is not using YMTC SSDs? What is wrong with them?
Perhaps they had stock they needed to use up?
 

tokenanalyst

Brigadier
Registered Member
also, i'm not sure why we got in an argument about whether 232-layer is in production?
The argument was not about whatever YMTC was producing 232L 3D NAND, the argument or should say the confusion was what technological level is YMTC with respect other 3D NAND players and some people confused technology with output. which is fine. Now, someone throw a number that got me really curious saying that their output of 232L 3D NAND was just 10k WPM or way less than 10% of YMTC perceived output, I just wanted the source of that information and I didn't knew that some people would take offense of that.

With respect of technology even if XTacking is pretty unique I personally think is really close to the other players level and in some cases is even superior to other technologies.​

.
 

tokenanalyst

Brigadier
Registered Member

Huawei and Harbin Institute of Technology join forces: patent for three-dimensional integrated chip based on silicon and diamond released​

Recently, the patent "A hybrid bonding method for three-dimensional integrated chips based on silicon and diamond" applied by Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd. and Harbin Institute of Technology was published. The application publication number is CN116960057A.
1622038823430.7263.jpg

The abstract shows that the present invention relates to the field of chip manufacturing technology. The method includes: preparing a silicon-based Cu/SiO2 mixed bonded sample and a diamond-based Cu/SiO2 mixed bonded sample and then performing plasma activation treatment; soaking the Cu/SiO2 mixed bonded sample after plasma activation treatment in an organic acid solution , clean and blow dry; drop the hydrofluoric acid solution on the surface to be bonded of the dried silicon-based and/or diamond-based Cu/SiO2 mixed bonded sample, and make the silicon-based and diamond-based Cu/SiO2 mixed bonds The combined samples are aligned and laminated for pre-bonding to obtain a pre-bonded chip; the pre-bonded chip is subjected to hot pressure bonding and annealing treatment to obtain a hybrid bonded sample pair. The invention realizes silicon/diamond three-dimensional heterogeneous integration based on Cu/SiO2 mixed bonding.​
 

tokenanalyst

Brigadier
Registered Member

LG Electronics adopts VeriSilicon vector graphics GPU​

VeriSilicon (VeriSilicon, stock code: 688521.SH) today announced that LG Electronics (LG)'s next-generation SoC uses VeriSilicon's proven low-power GCNanoUltraV 2.5D GPU. This integration will provide powerful image processing capabilities for various applications targeted by this SoC.
VeriSilicon's Vivante GCNanoUltraV 2.5D GPU integrates the company's self-developed compact VGLite API low-level driver and supports the popular lightweight multi-function graphics library (LVGL) to create beautiful user interfaces (UIs) on various hardware platforms ). In addition, GCNanoUltraV 2.5D GPU also supports VeriSilicon’s open source tool SvgVGLiteRenderer, which parses SVG files and renders SVG content through the VGLite API.
"We selected VeriSilicon's vector graphics IP because of its innovative features and performance in graphics-based applications. By integrating this technology into LG's own We look forward to improving the overall customer experience and strengthening our product offerings with our newly developed SoC product line."
Dai Weijin, executive vice president of VeriSilicon and general manager of IP Business Unit, said: "In an era where technology continues to reshape consumer electronics products, related products are undergoing rapid iterations. VeriSilicon is committed to providing PPA (power, performance, area) optimized The strong IP portfolio continues to innovate to improve user experience. The cooperation with LG will also further consolidate VeriSilicon's position in the consumer electronics market."

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
Look likes Bloomberg is actively advocating more sanctions on equipment sales to China for older technology chips and packaging.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
In the future when you post these articles, can you do a little more commentary on each article, your thoughts on them and why they are relevant. This seems to be a nasty habit of yours to just give us a link with very little thoughts. And frankly, I don't know why the Eric Schmidt link is here since we have a quantum computing thread already.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top