So that claim probably needs to be re-examined in greater depth.
Chinese semiconductor industry
- Thread starter Hendrik_2000
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Those are just submitted orders, the backlog or waitlist for delivery could be months or longer due to need to scale capacity to meet increasing demand. Either way, this is a beautiful "problem" because scaling is not insurmountable challenge. Historically, a large challenge was lackluster sales (and thus profits to recycle into R&D) for domestic suppliers - in this sense, US sanctions is a gift that keeps on giving.
Can anyone remember, that did Huawei announce any new chip after sanction？I mean，the likes of Ascend 910，TaiShan，KunPeng 920 were all published before US sanction. The Kirin 9000s was never mentioned by Huawei on any occasion even today.
So I'm curious to know，when would Huawei announce any new chip？
So I'm curious to know，when would Huawei announce any new chip？
"Only some of our immersed products will be placed under export control next year, not all. Even with the new export controls, we still have a very large immersed business in China." Shen Bo added.
"The development of the chip industry has been more than 60 years now. From the invention of integrated circuits to the present, it has been moving forward according to its own rules. If we look at the most influential places in China's industry? We can start from Looking at different end markets." At present, China is developing rapidly in end fields such as home appliances and consumer electronics, new energy vehicles, electric energy storage, polysilicon, solar cells and components.
Shen Bo said, "In our view, advanced process chips are relatively small in quantity, and the vast majority are mature process chips. I think that for China, driven by such a large terminal market demand, mature process chips will The chip reaches a very competitive level, which is the most efficient for the semiconductor industry and can achieve twice the result with half the effort, helping to improve the input-output ratio."
Shen Bo told TMTpost App that to enhance the global competitiveness of China’s mature manufacturing processes, long-term efforts will be needed in the future to cooperate with all links in the industrial chain. "Improving global competitiveness is a direction worth thinking about and working hard on."
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How to identify a used car salesman. He saying that China should abandon the idea of making "advance chips" and should not even try to innovate its way out of this situation in order to ASML and US companies keep their obscene markets share of the Chinese market.
Yes mature ships by volume make the majority of the chips sold in the open market, but close to advance chips like Huawei chips are the ones who power companies forward.
What he is not saying is that even if China decides to abandon the idea of making "advance chips", there is ZERO GUARANTEE that China will be allowed to import that chips they need from outside, like in the case of the H800, the US could change the rules every time they want AND apart from that there is also ZERO GUARANTEE that the US will not expand their export controls to mature process, in fact that is the hot topic in D.C. right now, if that if the case then ASML will have to abandon the Chinese market whatever they like it or not.
In the hypothetical scenario, even if China decides not to innovate their way out this situation and to stick with mature process, it beg the question, wouldn't be way better for China to take the opportunity to push forward their domestic semiconductor equipment, material and software supply chain? instead of making these semiconductor monopolies even richer? Wouldn't be better to help SMEE become a better frontend lithography company? Than wait until the US declared a complete embargo?
If ASML really cares about the Chinese market, why they don't set up an R&D and manufacturing facility to make unbannable scanners exclusive for the Chinese market?
"The development of the chip industry has been more than 60 years now. From the invention of integrated circuits to the present, it has been moving forward according to its own rules. If we look at the most influential places in China's industry? We can start from Looking at different end markets." At present, China is developing rapidly in end fields such as home appliances and consumer electronics, new energy vehicles, electric energy storage, polysilicon, solar cells and components.
Shen Bo said, "In our view, advanced process chips are relatively small in quantity, and the vast majority are mature process chips. I think that for China, driven by such a large terminal market demand, mature process chips will The chip reaches a very competitive level, which is the most efficient for the semiconductor industry and can achieve twice the result with half the effort, helping to improve the input-output ratio."
Shen Bo told TMTpost App that to enhance the global competitiveness of China’s mature manufacturing processes, long-term efforts will be needed in the future to cooperate with all links in the industrial chain. "Improving global competitiveness is a direction worth thinking about and working hard on."
--------------
How to identify a used car salesman. He saying that China should abandon the idea of making "advance chips" and should not even try to innovate its way out of this situation in order to ASML and US companies keep their obscene markets share of the Chinese market.
Yes mature ships by volume make the majority of the chips sold in the open market, but close to advance chips like Huawei chips are the ones who power companies forward.
What he is not saying is that even if China decides to abandon the idea of making "advance chips", there is ZERO GUARANTEE that China will be allowed to import that chips they need from outside, like in the case of the H800, the US could change the rules every time they want AND apart from that there is also ZERO GUARANTEE that the US will not expand their export controls to mature process, in fact that is the hot topic in D.C. right now, if that if the case then ASML will have to abandon the Chinese market whatever they like it or not.
In the hypothetical scenario, even if China decides not to innovate their way out this situation and to stick with mature process, it beg the question, wouldn't be way better for China to take the opportunity to push forward their domestic semiconductor equipment, material and software supply chain? instead of making these semiconductor monopolies even richer? Wouldn't be better to help SMEE become a better frontend lithography company? Than wait until the US declared a complete embargo?
If ASML really cares about the Chinese market, why they don't set up an R&D and manufacturing facility to make unbannable scanners exclusive for the Chinese market?
antiterror13
Brigadier
Initial production stage for SN2? really?
I thought Huawei Kirin 9000s is SN2 (7nm) ?
SN1 could produce 7nm.
They have always supplied iflytek with AI chips. They just happen to supply everyone else going forward. It's not like anyone in china can compete against Huawei AI chips when using same process.
Huawei people talk about in presentations. They don't have to formally announce anything
Isn't that the view what alot of people in China，or even members on this very forum holds？How many times I heard something like “We don't need EUV，28nm is enough” “advanced node is too expensive，no one is going to buy that” “99% of semiconductor market is mature node，there is very little need for advanced node” etc.
I get it，because China cannot make advanced node now，so people will naturally dismiss the importance of advanced node，in order comfort themself，it's a psychological defence
Seems like a strawman.
What is true though, is that these are commodities and chips act like commodities in the market.
They really need companies to stop using 28nm and 14nm chips to boost demand on advanced nodes.
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