Chinese semiconductor industry

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tonyget

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Chinese companies didn't want to use domestic AI chips，even SOE is no exception

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2023年7月，在一次国家政策制定机构组织的内部讨论中，一家国产头部芯片厂商人士曾口头提出一个应对AI芯片“卡脖子”的方案——由政府主导，约束所有数据中心都要采购一定比例的国产AI芯片。当时这一方案并未得到回应。原因是，这并不符合市场原则。此外，当时美国对中国的高端芯片制裁并未到彻底封死这一步，而且国产AI芯片目前还不够好用。

《财经》从一家国资背景的数字化企业了解到，2023年6月，部分地方政府出资建设“数字经济算力中心”时，曾向承建方提议，是否能采购一定数量国产AI芯片。这家作为承建方的国资数字化企业拒绝了。理由是，相比英伟达的AI芯片，国产AI芯片性能不足、不够好用。

In July 2023, in an internal discussion organized by the national policy-making agency, a domestic head chip manufacturer verbally proposed a plan to deal with the "stuck neck" of AI chips - led by the government, restricting all data centers to purchase them A certain proportion of domestic AI chips. There was no response to this proposal at the time. The reason is that this does not comply with market principles. In addition, the U.S. sanctions against China's high-end chips at that time did not go so far as to completely block China's high-end chips, and domestic AI chips were not yet useful enough.

"Finance" learned from a digital company with a state-owned background that in June 2023, when some local governments funded the construction of the "Digital Economy Computing Center", they proposed to the contractor whether they could purchase a certain number of domestic AI chips. The state-owned digital enterprise as the contractor refused. The reason is that compared with Nvidia’s AI chips, domestic AI chips have insufficient performance and are not easy to use.
 
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tokenanalyst

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tonyget said:
Chinese companies didn't want to use domestic AI chips，even SOE is no exception

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2023年7月，在一次国家政策制定机构组织的内部讨论中，一家国产头部芯片厂商人士曾口头提出一个应对AI芯片“卡脖子”的方案——由政府主导，约束所有数据中心都要采购一定比例的国产AI芯片。当时这一方案并未得到回应。原因是，这并不符合市场原则。此外，当时美国对中国的高端芯片制裁并未到彻底封死这一步，而且国产AI芯片目前还不够好用。

《财经》从一家国资背景的数字化企业了解到，2023年6月，部分地方政府出资建设“数字经济算力中心”时，曾向承建方提议，是否能采购一定数量国产AI芯片。这家作为承建方的国资数字化企业拒绝了。理由是，相比英伟达的AI芯片，国产AI芯片性能不足、不够好用。

In July 2023, in an internal discussion organized by the national policy-making agency, a domestic head chip manufacturer verbally proposed a plan to deal with the "stuck neck" of AI chips - led by the government, restricting all data centers to purchase them A certain proportion of domestic AI chips. There was no response to this proposal at the time. The reason is that this does not comply with market principles. In addition, the U.S. sanctions against China's high-end chips at that time did not go so far as to completely block China's high-end chips, and domestic AI chips were not yet useful enough.

"Finance" learned from a digital company with a state-owned background that in June 2023, when some local governments funded the construction of the "Digital Economy Computing Center", they proposed to the contractor whether they could purchase a certain number of domestic AI chips. The state-owned digital enterprise as the contractor refused. The reason is that compared with Nvidia’s AI chips, domestic AI chips have insufficient performance and are not easy to use.
Click to expand...
Chinese OEMs didn't to use domestic made chips, Chinese IC design houses didn't want to fab their chips domestically, Chinese fabs didn't want to use domestic made equipment and materials even for very mature process nodes and Chinese equipment makers didn't want to use domestic made components.

Ironically the only thing the US had to do to slow down the IC industry and therefore the electronic industry in China was...nothing...absolutely nothing, just sit back, collect the money and that's it.​
 
tphuang

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tonyget said:
Chinese companies didn't want to use domestic AI chips，even SOE is no exception

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2023年7月，在一次国家政策制定机构组织的内部讨论中，一家国产头部芯片厂商人士曾口头提出一个应对AI芯片“卡脖子”的方案——由政府主导，约束所有数据中心都要采购一定比例的国产AI芯片。当时这一方案并未得到回应。原因是，这并不符合市场原则。此外，当时美国对中国的高端芯片制裁并未到彻底封死这一步，而且国产AI芯片目前还不够好用。

《财经》从一家国资背景的数字化企业了解到，2023年6月，部分地方政府出资建设“数字经济算力中心”时，曾向承建方提议，是否能采购一定数量国产AI芯片。这家作为承建方的国资数字化企业拒绝了。理由是，相比英伟达的AI芯片，国产AI芯片性能不足、不够好用。

In July 2023, in an internal discussion organized by the national policy-making agency, a domestic head chip manufacturer verbally proposed a plan to deal with the "stuck neck" of AI chips - led by the government, restricting all data centers to purchase them A certain proportion of domestic AI chips. There was no response to this proposal at the time. The reason is that this does not comply with market principles. In addition, the U.S. sanctions against China's high-end chips at that time did not go so far as to completely block China's high-end chips, and domestic AI chips were not yet useful enough.

"Finance" learned from a digital company with a state-owned background that in June 2023, when some local governments funded the construction of the "Digital Economy Computing Center", they proposed to the contractor whether they could purchase a certain number of domestic AI chips. The state-owned digital enterprise as the contractor refused. The reason is that compared with Nvidia’s AI chips, domestic AI chips have insufficient performance and are not easy to use.
Click to expand...

While many Chinese companies do prefer to use Nvidia for obvious reasons, this article frankly seems to be written by someone with no clue on the topic.
 
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tokenanalyst

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The article may be lacking but the author is correct in some things, without a positive feedback these AI chips and other chips will always going to lack, they need a user ecosystem, is not just hardware and the number of transistors but the ecosystem that makes Nvidia strong in AI. The good news is that Huawei is standing up and they are really good creating ecosystems around hardware. Also companies like Biren will get a user base allowing them to create better ecosystems.
 
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Didida

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tokenanalyst said:
Chinese OEMs didn't to use domestic made chips, Chinese IC design houses didn't want to fab their chips domestically, Chinese fabs didn't want to use domestic made equipment and materials even for very mature process nodes and Chinese equipment makers didn't want to use domestic made components.

Ironically the only thing the US had to do to slow down the IC industry and therefore the electronic industry in China was...nothing...absolutely nothing, just sit back, collect the money and that's it.​
Click to expand...
And Chinese consumers didn’t want to use domestic made phones and EVs … or not? West just doesn't want to sit back and see their Apple and Ford got out-competed.
 
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ACuriousPLAFan

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tonyget said:
Chinese companies didn't want to use domestic AI chips，even SOE is no exception

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2023年7月，在一次国家政策制定机构组织的内部讨论中，一家国产头部芯片厂商人士曾口头提出一个应对AI芯片“卡脖子”的方案——由政府主导，约束所有数据中心都要采购一定比例的国产AI芯片。当时这一方案并未得到回应。原因是，这并不符合市场原则。此外，当时美国对中国的高端芯片制裁并未到彻底封死这一步，而且国产AI芯片目前还不够好用。

《财经》从一家国资背景的数字化企业了解到，2023年6月，部分地方政府出资建设“数字经济算力中心”时，曾向承建方提议，是否能采购一定数量国产AI芯片。这家作为承建方的国资数字化企业拒绝了。理由是，相比英伟达的AI芯片，国产AI芯片性能不足、不够好用。

In July 2023, in an internal discussion organized by the national policy-making agency, a domestic head chip manufacturer verbally proposed a plan to deal with the "stuck neck" of AI chips - led by the government, restricting all data centers to purchase them A certain proportion of domestic AI chips. There was no response to this proposal at the time. The reason is that this does not comply with market principles. In addition, the U.S. sanctions against China's high-end chips at that time did not go so far as to completely block China's high-end chips, and domestic AI chips were not yet useful enough.

"Finance" learned from a digital company with a state-owned background that in June 2023, when some local governments funded the construction of the "Digital Economy Computing Center", they proposed to the contractor whether they could purchase a certain number of domestic AI chips. The state-owned digital enterprise as the contractor refused. The reason is that compared with Nvidia’s AI chips, domestic AI chips have insufficient performance and are not easy to use.
Click to expand...
This is why the West doing chip-dumping is actually far more dangerous and lethal towards the Chinese semiconductor industry than enforcing sanctions and bans against Chinese semiconductor industry players - Precisely because of sh1theads like these.

And by this point, I'm sort of begging for the West to enact even more and stricter sanctions and bans against the Chinese semiconductor industry.

Because only through this where those sh1theads shall find themselves running head first into a wall. Only by then will they wake the fvck up. And if they don't, then they deserve to die - Because that's exactly how nature works.
 
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tokenanalyst

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This is a pretty good comment.
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When Huawei was first sanctioned by the United States, Huawei said its biggest mistake was not cultivating the domestic chip industry. chip companies must find problems during use in order to iterate quickly and get better and better. It has been several years now, but these domestic entrepreneurs are still shortsighted. They still hold on to illusions that the United States will not sanction them or only sanction Huawei and leave them alone, so they do not have to use domestic products, leaving domestic companies without opportunity to develop and grow.

- Knowing yourself and knowing your enemy still apply in the world of business.
 
sunnymaxi

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tokenanalyst said:
This is a pretty good comment.
View attachment 120617
When Huawei was first sanctioned by the United States, Huawei said its biggest mistake was not cultivating the domestic chip industry. chip companies must find problems during use in order to iterate quickly and get better and better. It has been several years now, but these domestic entrepreneurs are still shortsighted. They still hold on to illusions that the United States will not sanction them or only sanction Huawei and leave them alone, so they do not have to use domestic products, leaving domestic companies without opportunity to develop and grow.

- Knowing yourself and knowing your enemy still apply in the world of business.
Click to expand...
nothing left now ..glad its over.

they have no choice but to use domestic equipment , hardware and software. sanctions on semiconductor woke up other industries as well. more and more Chinese high tech firms looking for domestic options.
 
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tokenanalyst

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"Thin film growth" domestic experimental device has been accepted​


Recently, the "thin film growth" experimental device, an important process equipment in semiconductor chip production, passed acceptance inspection in Wuhan. This original breakthrough could improve the quality of semiconductor chips.

This "thin film growth" domestic experimental device consists of multiple chambers such as a "sampling chamber" and a "high vacuum ring manipulator sample transfer chamber" and an "ultrafast femtosecond dual-mode imaging system" and "ultrafast electronic imaging system". It is composed of components and covers an area of more than 20 square meters.

"Like the photolithography process, semiconductor thin film growth is the core upstream process of chip production." Wu Gai, an associate researcher at Wuhan University, introduced the working principle of this experimental device: Put silicon, sapphire and other substrates into the sampling chamber, and pass " The "high vacuum ring manipulator" transports the substrate to chambers with different functions to realize processes such as substrate pretreatment, film growth, and plasma cleaning.

According to reports, the semiconductor chip manufacturing process is very complex, mainly including dozens to hundreds of processes in four major links: silicon wafer manufacturing, integrated circuit design, front-end processes and back-end processes. "Thin film growth", photolithography, etching, etc. are all front-end processes in turn.

This independently developed domestic experimental device for "thin film growth" was led by Professor Liu Sheng of Wuhan University, in collaboration with Huazhong University of Science and Technology, Tianjin Institute of Advanced Equipment of Tsinghua University, South China University of Technology, Institute of Semiconductors, Chinese Academy of Sciences, and Institute of Microelectronics, Chinese Academy of Sciences. Waiting for several units, it took 5 years to complete.

Professor Liu Sheng said in an interview that the traditional chemical deposition method used in "thin film growth" is prone to pollution and defects, which affects the quality and performance of semiconductors. This experimental device introduces ultrafast laser, which can monitor and regulate defects during the entire "thin film growth" process.

Liu Sheng's team integrated the design and manufacturing of semiconductor material growth equipment and testing equipment to overcome a number of key technical problems. The equipment was vacuum interconnected to avoid adverse effects of human factors and external environment on the growth materials, and significantly improved the quality of the growth materials.
In September this year, the National Natural Science Foundation of China’s Project Acceptance Expert Group, led by three academicians, unanimously agreed that the project had passed final acceptance and stated that it had outstanding originality.

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