Chinese semiconductor industry

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gelgoog

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I assume that a chip like that is designed in a high-level language (verilog or similar) and then compiled with IP blocks ultimately to a mask for a particular process.

Is it actually posible to create such a massive project (the 9000S) on pirated software? I would expect the EDA software stack to have some sort of server-side part and / or another mechanism that prevented unlicensed use plus the final compilation to a mask to be proprietary to the particular process.
Even if the software "dials home" talented crackers can break those kinds of protections. Either by making their own virtual server or modifying the binary directly to not do those calls in the first place. As for changes specific to each process in the output modules, from what I understand the fabs themselves often develop and provide this software, rather than the EDA vendor. It is probably just a plugin or even a set of configuration files.
 

tokenanalyst

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It is said that Jiangsu Pilot Semiconductor’s high-end equipment R&D and production project has been delivered in mass production​


Xuzhou High-tech Zone, in the Jiangsu Leading Semiconductor high-end equipment R&D and production project plant built by Minmetals 23rd Metallurgical Company 5, a vehicle fully loaded with the first A large truck carrying Taiwan's flexible perovskite mass production equipment drove to the customer's location, marking the successful mass production and early delivery of the project.
As a major project in Jiangsu Province in 2022 and the No. 1 Project of Xuzhou High-tech Zone, this project will start construction in December 2021, with a total investment of 5.1 billion yuan, of which the first phase is approximately 2.863 billion yuan. The project is committed to the localization of core spare parts for semiconductor deposition and coating equipment, filling the gap in the mid-to-high-end field of domestic semiconductor equipment. After the project reaches full capacity, it will be able to produce 600 sets of semiconductors and other optomechanical equipment annually.
According to previous news, in June 2021, Guangdong Leading Thin Materials Co., Ltd.'s semiconductor deposition and coating equipment production base project was signed and landed in Xuzhou. In 2019, Leading Group fully acquired the German FHR company (the world's leading supplier of thin film vacuum equipment manufacturing) for 45 million euros, and plans to build a domestic production base for semiconductor deposition and coating equipment.

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ansy1968

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U.S. Expected to Issue Updates to Export Restrictions on China, Sources Say -- WSJ

Updated U.S. Export Curbs Expected to Limit China's Access to AI Chips, Sources Say -- WSJ
Xi will not attend the APEC summit.
New U.S. Rules To Align Curbs on Chinese Access to Chip Tools with Rules of Netherlands and Japan, Sources Say -- WSJ
Its about time, CCP is just waiting for this moment to officially announce the launching of SSA800 DUVL.
New U.S. Rules Expected to Counter Re-Exports of Advanced Chips to China, Sources Say -- WSJ
Good more customer to Huawei. I'm advising those who hold Nvidia stock to sell while the valuation is still high.
 

huemens

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U.S. Expected to Issue Updates to Export Restrictions on China, Sources Say -- WSJ

Updated U.S. Export Curbs Expected to Limit China's Access to AI Chips, Sources Say -- WSJ

New U.S. Rules To Align Curbs on Chinese Access to Chip Tools with Rules of Netherlands and Japan, Sources Say -- WSJ

New U.S. Rules Expected to Counter Re-Exports of Advanced Chips to China, Sources Say -- WSJ

But today it was announced that they have given an indefinite waiver to South Korean companies to import the banned equipment to China. Right now the waiver is for US equipment. But if US companies are allowed to sell, then dutch government would want the same treatment for ASML. So may be there's a chance South Korean fabs in China would get even ASML EUV in a not so distant future.
 

liospopo

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I keep seeing that Huawei pirated US software in order to design the 9000S.

I assume that a chip like that is designed in a high-level language (verilog or similar) and then compiled with IP blocks ultimately to a mask for a particular process.

Is it actually posible to create such a massive project (the 9000S) on pirated software? I would expect the EDA software stack to have some sort of server-side part and / or another mechanism that prevented unlicensed use plus the final compilation to a mask to be proprietary to the particular process.
EDA software is not some magic spells. It's hard to make because you need fabs to work with you closely. And guess what, Huawei can made that happen.
 

mrandolph

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EDA software is not some magic spells. It's hard to make because you need fabs to work with you closely. And guess what, Huawei can made that happen.

Exactly. How is it that some assume that the 9000S is made with pirated software when in fact Huawei has announced its own EDA-software and has demonstrated its ability to push what can done fab-wise in China to new highs? What is the evidence?
 

horse

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Okay, after I stopping laughing, actually this is the second time I read the article, I laughed the first time, and I laughed the second time, then right now, I though of something.

The Koreans were this insistent on maintaining their presence in the China market.

Are they really saying they cannot survive without the China market?

They would not be alone in saying that.

We never think of that, because we assume they will be gone sooner or later anyways, the way things are going.

I don't think the Korean IC companies will survive if they are gone from the China market, I don't.

The only way Samsung and Hynix will survive is the South Korean state will give them endless subsidies. Just like how they do it in the north.

South Korea becomes North Korea. Congratulations!

:D
 

siegecrossbow

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Okay, after I stopping laughing, actually this is the second time I read the article, I laughed the first time, and I laughed the second time, then right now, I though of something.

The Koreans were this insistent on maintaining their presence in the China market.

Are they really saying they cannot survive without the China market?

They would not be alone in saying that.

We never think of that, because we assume they will be gone sooner or later anyways, the way things are going.

I don't think the Korean IC companies will survive if they are gone from the China market, I don't.

The only way Samsung and Hynix will survive is the South Korean state will give them endless subsidies. Just like how they do it in the north.

South Korea becomes North Korea. Congratulations!

:D

They can still survive in some form outside of the Chinese market should the curtain really come down, but it would not be a quality market and they’d be scrapping by like a zombie.
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
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The Koreans were this insistent on maintaining their presence in the China market.
Are they really saying they cannot survive without the China market?
Almost all of SK Hynix's memory fabs are in China. They only have one not so large facility in South Korea, which makes advanced DRAM with EUV. But all their older generation DRAM and NAND Flash is made in China. As for Samsung, while they have more fabs in South Korea than SK Hynix, they still have a significant amount of memory production in China.

If you took those fabs out for whatever reason then there would be a massive supply shock and SK Hynix would quite likely not survive, and even Samsung would be majorly impacted.
 
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