Chinese semiconductor industry

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tphuang

tphuang

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another part of developing domestic supply chain here is with MatePad Pro 13.2 using flexible OLED by BOE and Visionox
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given how much effort Huawei put into making it thin and light + was able to do this with domestic supply chain. Shows BOE is very competitive here. Let's see if BOE can capture more of the domestic market.

Based on all the weibo people, domestic oem usage of OLED will significant increase over the next year. Great opportunity for BOE and others to increase their market share
 
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BlackWindMnt

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Wondering how China is doing in the area of miniled. Miniled looks really good on my macbook. Seeing that reduced in price for like say an $750 Huawei mateview gt 2 ultra wide would be awesome.
 
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AndrewS

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ZeEa5KPul said:
How long it takes to build a synchrotron isn't the point, it's what the facility at Xiong'an is intended to do. If it's still an early proof of principle device - which it very well could be - then SSMB EUV is still some ways away while the experiments get done. If China is willing to take more risk by pursuing a more aggressive roadmap, then the facility could serve as a direct prototype for a production synchrotron, with commercial entities like SMIC experimenting with it and beginning low rate production fairly soon (around 2025).

In any case, an LPP production prototype has been/will soon be delivered and the most credible rumours indicate that it should be in commercial production within 3 years.
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@FairAndUnbiased
@tinrobert

Couldn't a Synchrontron SSMB also be used to create DUV wavelength light as well?

If so, wouldn't it make sense to build a production scale prototype asap, for both EUV and DUV development?

The economics of DUV would appear to still make sense, given that each DUV lithography machine is $60Mn+

EUV would almost certainly take longer.

And in a worse case scenario, a large-scale Synchrotron SSMB just ends up providing a lot more beamlines for scientists to work with, just like the current Shanghai and Beijing research Synchrotrons.
 
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dingyibvs

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BlackWindMnt said:
Wondering how China is doing in the area of miniled. Miniled looks really good on my macbook. Seeing that reduced in price for like say an $750 Huawei mateview gt 2 ultra wide would be awesome.
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I'm in the market for a new TV, and I'm putting off the purchase until next year because both TCL and Hisense are coming out with industry leading (by far) mini-LED TVs.

The specs are just bonkers. LED TVs have been kind of the same the past 3 years, but the new TCL/Hisense models will more than double the brightness and dimming zones of current top of the line offers from Samsung, LG, and Sony. People who've seen it say it looks better than OLED now.
 
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latenlazy

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AndrewS said:
@FairAndUnbiased
@tinrobert

Couldn't a Synchrontron SSMB also be used to create DUV wavelength light as well?

If so, wouldn't it make sense to build a production scale prototype asap, for both EUV and DUV development?

The economics of DUV would appear to still make sense, given that each DUV lithography machine is $60Mn+

EUV would almost certainly take longer.

And in a worse case scenario, a large-scale Synchrotron SSMB just ends up providing a lot more beamlines for scientists to work with, just like the current Shanghai and Beijing research Synchrotrons.
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Doesn’t make much sense because DUV light sources are a solved problem and not difficult. Using a synchrotron for a DUV light source is overengineering.

FairAndUnbiased said:
Connections is good for raw data. But having a BA in business, and with no experience on the ground, means it's harder to separate what you think is credible from what is actually credible.
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This limitation can be overcome if people adopt “would I have an idea of how I would make it by myself with this level of understanding” way of thinking rather than a “tell me how it works” way of thinking
 
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gelgoog

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latenlazy said:
Doesn’t make much sense because DUV light sources are a solved problem and not difficult. Using a synchrotron for a DUV light source is overengineering.
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Like some here have talked about, performance of UV-LED light sources has improved enough in recent years that it might make sense to use that as the light source for older nodes. That would be a major disruption to the market if they got it to work. Since UV-LED is a lot more efficient at generating light than an excimer laser or a mercury arc lamp.
 
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tokenanalyst

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gelgoog said:
Like some here have talked about, performance of UV-LED light sources has improved enough in recent years that it might make sense to use that as the light source for older nodes. That would be a major disruption to the market if they got it to work. Since UV-LED is a lot more efficient at generating light than an excimer laser.
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UV-LED may replace UV Lamps in some lithography applications but high power DUV excimers lasers are necesary for high performance frontend lithography patterning.

latenlazy said:
Doesn’t make much sense because DUV light sources are a solved problem and not difficult. Using a synchrotron for a DUV light source is overengineering.
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Not necessary, synchrotron and FELs could deliver huge amount of EUV power, that increase in power would be prohibitive using LPP EUV, also as the technology mature it could become more compact and fab friendly.
 
FairAndUnbiased

FairAndUnbiased

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AndrewS said:
@FairAndUnbiased
@tinrobert

Couldn't a Synchrontron SSMB also be used to create DUV wavelength light as well?

If so, wouldn't it make sense to build a production scale prototype asap, for both EUV and DUV development?

The economics of DUV would appear to still make sense, given that each DUV lithography machine is $60Mn+

EUV would almost certainly take longer.

And in a worse case scenario, a large-scale Synchrotron SSMB just ends up providing a lot more beamlines for scientists to work with, just like the current Shanghai and Beijing research Synchrotrons.
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yes, but there isn't much point in doing so I think. The expense of a immersion DUV instrument is in the immersion mechanism and high precision wafer stage, not the light source.

Dry ArF is $20 million. Similar light source. The expense and complexity of EUV is, I believe, hugely in the light source.

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The dry ArF systems fall into an entirely different price range, at around 20 million euros, while KrF machines cost 10 million euros. I-line machines do not fall within the DUV category. They image patterns with the spectral i-line from a mercury lamp. For that type of system, ASML charges around 5 million euros.
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