Chinese semiconductor industry

coolgod said:

Is China hyping up SSMB really stupid? Mislead your opponents about your experimental physics projects while you secretly develop LPP-EUV machines. Definitely not the first time China uses strategic misdirection on its secret R&D projects.

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I think it would be the opposite: look like playing catchup by going for LPP and 'stupidly reinventing the wheel', while you're secretly going around them with SSMB. there's no real reason to keep a LPP project secret, since they already know it probably exists, they know what the chokepoints are, etc. while SSMB is entirely unfamiliar.

Historically, China has been not so successful at playing straight catch up. See: gas cars.

China has been way better at simply inventing a new paradigm that renders the old one obsolete. See: EVs making not catching up in gas cars irrelevant.

ansy1968 said:

@horse bro those days are exciting especially from members of Batch 2021 (@tokenanalyst @foofy @BlackWindMnt and the great Hyper Horse ) and what happen to @krautmeister, he is MIA, too bad cause he and @tokenanalyst, @WTAN @latenlazy contribute a lot regarding SSMB discussion.

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Our friend @tinrobert has also been spot on with his analysis/predictions. Give him his flowers too.

tphuang said:

View attachment 119058

LeTV will be unveiling new projector on 25th. The entire series will be using Hisilicon chip. Unclear if this will be using V811 or something else. But given the same date as Huawei unveiling, I get the sense that it will use the same chip that the Huawei screens will be using.

I wonder if it's taken them this long to announce this projector (originally rumored in May), because it took a while for Huawei to get its production up for chips supporting screens and such

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it did come out officially as using V811

Can see details of the chip here

most likely a 12nm chip

They also unveiled S series projector that uses a mysterious hisilicon chip
which also comes with 2GB DRAM & 64GB SSD + support for wifi and bluetooth

funnily enough, Huawei's own TV smart screen V5 uses a new upgraded SoC Honghu-900 (鸿鹄 900)

Which compared to 818

华为智慧屏 V5 Pro 搭载鸿鹄 900 芯片，相比此前的鸿鹄 818，CPU 性能提升 200%、GPU 性能提升 160%；相比于行业旗舰，NPU 性能提升 212%。此外，该机配有 HDMI 2.1、USB 3.0 接口，搭载 6GB + 64GB 存储，支持双频 Wi-Fi。

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Pretty big increases across the board here in performance. Comes with AI computation, 4T+1T of double NPU

screen wise, uses super miniLED

华为智慧屏V5 Pro 85英寸和98英寸均采用了Super MiniLED面板，均支持4K/120Hz高刷，前者576个分区、1600尼特亮度，后者1008个分区、最高2000尼特亮度。

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The key is the upgraded remote control, which allows the full screen to be used like a smartphone allowing sliding, drag & drop and such.

该机的一大卖点是遥控器升级，全新的“华为灵犀指向遥控”，号称全球首创绝对指向交互，在大屏上实现滑动、拖拽点按等交互方式，像玩手机一样，操控大屏。配合隔空触控，大屏可以秒变巨幕手机，在智慧屏上使用手机端移动应用。

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claims that Honghu 900 is a lot better than current industry flagship product

one thing to note is that despite all of huawei's new devices, China as a whole is still very dependent for American chips in consumer electronics here


this example of leishen X4 (thunderbolt) router uses broadcom chip & 8 FEM which are likely the broadcom FEMs

Production domestically is still limited and Huawei likely uses up all of it

Kirin A2 officially unveiled now using polar code & double DSP architecture

it applies NearLink & BT tech to achieve 4x increase in physical bandwidth with Mate 60 (8Mbps vs 2 Mbps traditionally) & 2x improvement in anti-interference
supports L2HC 3.0 with 1.5 Mbps lossless sound data transfer (again apple airpod AAC has 256kps data transfer)

freebuds pro 3.0 comes with its new VPU (voice processing unit) to process voice command/pickup 2.5x better than prev generation. It's also close to ear, which isolates noise

FairAndUnbiased said:

I think it would be the opposite: look like playing catchup by going for LPP and 'stupidly reinventing the wheel', while you're secretly going around them with SSMB. there's no real reason to keep a LPP project secret, since they already know it probably exists, they know what the chokepoints are, etc. while SSMB is entirely unfamiliar.

Historically, China has been not so successful at playing straight catch up. See: gas cars.

China has been way better at simply inventing a new paradigm that renders the old one obsolete. See: EVs making not catching up in gas cars irrelevant.

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I think your strategy is correct, unfortunately there is no chance the SSMB EUV will be used in commercial chip production earlier than LPP-EUV. SSMB is still just a theory right now, getting from theory to commercialization takes many years. We aren't even sure SSMB will work, there can be many undiscovered factors which may cause the microbunches to be unstable.

IMO the describing their experiment is still far away from the actual SSMB result.

We emphasize that here we do not report an actual demonstration of
SSMB, but rather a demonstration of the mechanism by which SSMB will
eventually be attained. First, the formation of microbunching after one
complete revolution of a laser-modulated bunch in a quasi-isochronous
ring demonstrates the viability of a turn-by-turn electron optical phase
correlation with a precision of sub-laser wavelength. Second, this micro-
bunching is produced on the stored electron bunch, the equilibrium
parameters and distribution of which before the laser modulation are
defined by the same storage ring as a whole. The combination of these
two crucial factors establishes a closed loop to support the realiza-
tion of SSMB, provided that a phase-locked laser interacts with the
electrons turn by turn.

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In conclusion, we have demonstrated the mechanism of SSMB in
an electron storage ring. On the basis of the achieved results, work on
sustaining the microbunching for multiple turns, by replacing the laser
used here with a high-repetition phase-locked laser, is ongoing at MLS.

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Very disappointed that we didn't get a new MateView. Wonderful office monitor let down by the lack of HDMI 2.1/DP1.4 interface and overheating problem - something new chips should be able to fix.

antiterror13 said:

Did you write the article ?

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Yes. You can go to my website at and click on the "Online Newsletter" tab on banner to access all my articles. Look at my "Market Reports" tab to see the in-depth reports I write.

Blitzo said:

It's already known that LPP EUV is being pursued as well as SSMB EUV, with the former likely to emerge into practical use quite a bit earlier than the latter.

But that is exactly why the news reporting about SSMB has been somewhat stupid and going into the typical clickbait headlines that makes it seem like SSMB is going to emerge in the near future in a practical form for EUV lithography, or that they are pursuing SSMB "instead of" more conventional LPP EUV.

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To say the media is stupid is to say water is wet. It's best just to ignore them.

When SSMB will be ready for at least the commercial equivalent of LRIP depends on the nature of the facility being built at XNA and its place on the technological roadmap. If it's a small-scale proof of principle demonstrator then I would say that SSMB EUV would be post 2027 at the earliest. If China's more ambitious and builds an advanced prototype of the intended industrial synchrotron, then we'll see SSMB EUV much earlier, possibly even a Ma Weiming situation between LPP (steam) and SSMB (electromagnetic).

ZeEa5KPul said:

To say the media is stupid is to say water is wet. It's best just to ignore them.

When SSMB will be ready for at least the commercial equivalent of LRIP depends on the nature of the facility being built at XNA and its place on the technological roadmap. If it's a small-scale proof of principle demonstrator then I would say that SSMB EUV would be post 2027 at the earliest. If China's more ambitious and builds an advanced prototype of the intended industrial synchrotron, then we'll see SSMB EUV much earlier, possibly even a Ma Weiming situation between LPP (steam) and SSMB (electromagnetic).

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Wasn't the estimate for the construction time of an SSMB facility around a year? Has that changed? Depending on where they're at in the construction then there could be an operational facility potentially in 2024.