Chinese semiconductor industry

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OppositeDay

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Is the difference purely because of camera hardware or does software also play an integral part? I find it hard to believe that Apple would skimp out on iPhone cameras.

Huawei's image certainly looks more processed, especially the second one. Apple always use the best sensor money can buy.

However people are expecting new domestic stacked CMOS sensors later this year. China is making breakthroughs on all fronts.
 

BoraTas

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Is the difference purely because of camera hardware or does software also play an integral part? I find it hard to believe that Apple would skimp out on iPhone cameras.
On phones, what you see is mostly software trickery. For example, they take numerous photos, choose a few of them, edit those in some ways, compound them, and edit the result again. They constantly optimize parameters. Nowadays these are all aided by AI. These are computationally intense which is why smartphone SoCs have specialized NPUs and DSPs nowadays. It is also why most people take worse photos with real cameras. The phone does choosing and editing for you.

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CMP

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Huawei's image certainly looks more processed, especially the second one. Apple always use the best sensor money can buy.

However people are expecting new domestic stacked CMOS sensors later this year. China is making breakthroughs on all fronts.
You say that like consumers care. All that matters is what most people feel like looks better or not. If most consumers prefer greater color saturation or more image sharpening, then give them what they want.
 

tphuang

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On phones, what you see is mostly software trickery. For example, they take numerous photos, choose a few of them, edit those in some ways, compound them, and edit the result again. They constantly optimize parameters. Nowadays these are all aided by AI. These are computationally intense which is why smartphone SoCs have specialized NPUs and DSPs nowadays. It is also why most people take worse photos with real cameras. The phone does choosing and editing for you.

View attachment 119156
Kirin-9000S diagram shows both an ISP and DSP. ISP is next to the NPU, so it makes sense to me that the two are working together in taking in data from image sensor and getting the best result of it

I saw this online because I wasn't sure of the difference, but based on this user's comment, looks like ISP is more important in just the photo taking part
The ISP typically handles output data from image sensors, such as AEC (AE control), AGC (Automatic gain control), AWB (auto white balance), color correction, Lens shading, Gamma correction, removal of bad points, Processing of auto Black level, auto white level and so on.

And the DSP function is more, it can do some photography and echo (JPEG codec), video and playback (video codec), the codec , and many other aspects of processing, In short, the digital signal is processed. Personally, the ISP is a special kind of DSP for processing image signals.
image sensor
Image sensor is an important part of digital video camera. According to the different components, can be divided into CCD and CMOS two major categories. such as Sony's ICX 445, ICX274, Imx035/036,aptina mt9m033, mt9d131, Mt9t031,omnivison of OV2715 and so on. The role of image sensors is to capture and convert optical images into the electrical signals available to back-end ISPs.
 

HighGround

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On phones, what you see is mostly software trickery. For example, they take numerous photos, choose a few of them, edit those in some ways, compound them, and edit the result again. They constantly optimize parameters. Nowadays these are all aided by AI. These are computationally intense which is why smartphone SoCs have specialized NPUs and DSPs nowadays. It is also why most people take worse photos with real cameras. The phone does choosing and editing for you.

View attachment 119156
I think it's important to note that camera sensors have gotten better (bigger) over time. It's not just software. The hardware has improved as well.
 

Phead128

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This article is very reasonable and objective, the author has a PhD in material chemistry and 10 years of wafer fabrication experience. He says that SMIC is capable of going down to 5nm with DUV multi patterning. Contrast this to the legions of humanities, political-science, MBAs who pretend to be "semiconductor experts".... this guy has real experience and is a true expert.

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Key Points of Article:
  • Chinese Self-Sufficiency: Sanctions imposed by the U.S. aimed to inhibit China's technological progress but have instead catalyzed China's drive to be self-sufficient in semiconductor production, aligning with "Made in China 2025" initiative.
  • SMIC’s Progress: Despite sanctions and not having access to ASML’s EUV lithography equipment, SMIC (Semiconductor Manufacturing International) has reached the 7nm node and is on track to reach 5nm by 2025, showing significant advancements in technology.
  • Chinese Companies Benefiting: The sanctions have benefitted domestic Chinese equipment companies; HoH growth for these companies is 4x greater than non-Chinese companies, allowing them to grow and potentially serve not only Chinese semiconductor companies but also international ones.
  • Increase in Chip-Related Businesses: China has added a significant number of new chip-related businesses, 47,400 in 2021, depicting a rapid growth in the domestic semiconductor industry.
  • Equipment Sales Drop for Non-Chinese Companies: Companies like ASML and KLA have experienced a drop in equipment sales to China due to sanctions, affecting their revenue from the Chinese market.
  • Chinese Companies' Global Share: Chinese-owned organizations are expected to accelerate capacity investments and represent about 60% of China's fab capacity by 2024, increasing China’s global share in the semiconductor industry.
  • Effect on Global Competition: The advancement of Chinese domestic equipment companies could affect global competition, as these companies are not only selling to Chinese semiconductor companies but also to non-Chinese companies.
  • Sanctions Proven Ineffective: The U.S. sanctions have proven to be ineffective in curbing China’s technological advancements in the semiconductor sector, rather they have been a catalyst for growth and advancements in Chinese semiconductor and equipment companies
I highly recommend reading the full article.
 

ansy1968

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This article is very reasonable and objective, the author has a PhD in material chemistry and 10 years of wafer fabrication experience. He says that SMIC is capable of going down to 5nm with DUV multi patterning. Contrast this to the legions of humanities, political-science, MBAs who pretend to be "semiconductor experts".... this guy has real experience and is a true expert.

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Key Points of Article:
  • Chinese Self-Sufficiency: Sanctions imposed by the U.S. aimed to inhibit China's technological progress but have instead catalyzed China's drive to be self-sufficient in semiconductor production, aligning with "Made in China 2025" initiative.
  • SMIC’s Progress: Despite sanctions and not having access to ASML’s EUV lithography equipment, SMIC (Semiconductor Manufacturing International) has reached the 7nm node and is on track to reach 5nm by 2025, showing significant advancements in technology.
  • Chinese Companies Benefiting: The sanctions have benefitted domestic Chinese equipment companies; HoH growth for these companies is 4x greater than non-Chinese companies, allowing them to grow and potentially serve not only Chinese semiconductor companies but also international ones.
  • Increase in Chip-Related Businesses: China has added a significant number of new chip-related businesses, 47,400 in 2021, depicting a rapid growth in the domestic semiconductor industry.
  • Equipment Sales Drop for Non-Chinese Companies: Companies like ASML and KLA have experienced a drop in equipment sales to China due to sanctions, affecting their revenue from the Chinese market.
  • Chinese Companies' Global Share: Chinese-owned organizations are expected to accelerate capacity investments and represent about 60% of China's fab capacity by 2024, increasing China’s global share in the semiconductor industry.
  • Effect on Global Competition: The advancement of Chinese domestic equipment companies could affect global competition, as these companies are not only selling to Chinese semiconductor companies but also to non-Chinese companies.
  • Sanctions Proven Ineffective: The U.S. sanctions have proven to be ineffective in curbing China’s technological advancements in the semiconductor sector, rather they have been a catalyst for growth and advancements in Chinese semiconductor and equipment companies
I highly recommend reading the full article (
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Courtesy of our very own @tinrobert, as always great analysis Sir.:)
 

tphuang

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Screen Shot 2023-09-23 at 9.15.54 AM.png
more speculations with 25th approaching

Kirin A2 has been talked about by this weibo user for a long time. I assume something will come out called A2, so don't dispute that.

We will see if this other details about supporting Polar tech music chip & have 40-50% reduction in power consumption is true. As for speech quality & noise cancellation and higher data rate, that's a combination of nearlink tech (so RF chips + tech standard itself), software and more. Of course, A2 SoC will need to be powerful enough to handle the computation.

Smart glasses will be a good deal to if it can do 11 hour usage.

11 hours is a lot. Keep in mind Facebook's ray-ban glasses has 3 hours of battery life
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see more here, looks like 8 hours is top of the line
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