Chinese semiconductor industry

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tphuang

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Bro, not sure why you would say that. Below is what Geekerwan shared, it clearly showed Kirin 9000S (red dot) to be below Kirin9000 (yellow line). There are other data like this out there that showed the same.

And in terms of power consumption, the fact that Kirin9000S needs more heat dissipation work-around is almost certainly because 9000S is inferior to Kirin9000 in terms of power consumption/leakage

I'm sure there are other aspects where Kirin9000S may be better due to better chip design optimization. But it is clearly crippled by the fact that it's based on an older technology....there's only so much you can optimize to close the gap with 5nm and Kirin9000, but the lower clock speed, more thermal output is clearly the baggage that comes with using an older tech.
View attachment 118412
Looks like I may have gotten 9000 and SD888 mixed up in my head.

But that still seems to me the difference isn't that large & the A510 power consumption + Taishan medium core power consumption both look fine to me. For regular usage, it's worse than SD8 & Kirin 9000, but nobody will actually be able to tell the difference
Kirin9000S_A510_PowerConsumption.png
TaishanMediumCore_Comparison_PowerConsumption.png

I don't think people are saying that Huawei isn't hamstrung here but that what Hisilicon has designed is good enough that people can still use it as a flagship phone

And this applies to game play people have tested out also.
 

tphuang

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so where is this SSA800 being tested?

why do i have a feeling perhaps 'the street' is confused with testing of SMEE's iline system and confused it to be an immersion system?
that's possible. We will find out in due time

that's not possible

Maybe that's why domestic lithography and photoresist stocks are having a field day (basically a whole week's rally).... plus the Huawei announcements
I don't think anyone knows this stuff for sure. There is a lot of speculations in the air these days due to M60.
 

tokenanalyst

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500 billion! Suzhou focuses on the development of photonic chips, optical devices, cutting-edge new materials and other fields​


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mrandolph

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How come TechInsights is certain that the Kirin 9000s is made by SMIC?

Is there any kind of technical way to proof this? Or is it just by assumption?

It seems to me a curious gamble for SMIC to play to participate in Huawei's very public endevour. The US could escalate sanctions againt SMIC further using their "foreign direct product rule" forcing ASML and many others to stop supplying them.
 

siegecrossbow

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How come TechInsights is certain that the Kirin 9000s is made by SMIC?

Is there any kind of technical way to proof this? Or is it just by assumption?

It seems to me a curious gamble for SMIC to play to participate in Huawei's very public endevour. The US could escalate sanctions againt SMIC further using their "foreign direct product rule" forcing ASML and many others to stop supplying them.

Different fabs have different “signatures” unique to the process employed. It is verifiable via microscope analysis.

This is not a gamble when you realize that both Huawei and SMIC have factored in stricter sanctions and concluded that either 1) said sanctions can’t do anything or 2) said sanctions won’t happen.
 

ansy1968

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Different fabs have different “signatures” unique to the process employed. It is verifiable via microscope analysis.

This is not a gamble when you realize that both Huawei and SMIC have factored in stricter sanctions and concluded that either 1) said sanctions can’t do anything or 2) said sanctions won’t happen.
Sir from my mentor @Oldschool

Oldschool

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Today at 10:26 PM
Food for thoughts.
Huawei's concurrent 3 new brands , Mate 60 Pro, Mate 60 Pro +, and Mate X5 estimated minimum at 25million units or as much as 200 million units. All 3 brands carry Kirin 9000s 7nm.
That would make us think about SMIC 7nm volume. The previous discussion on this board on SMIC's capacity would not be sufficient.
 

tokenanalyst

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so where is this SSA800 being tested?

why do i have a feeling perhaps 'the street' is confused with testing of SMEE's iline system and confused it to be an immersion system?
Well they tested are testing both dry( Arf, I-Line, KrF) and immersion( ArFi), the I-line thing come from a post from a guy in Chinese forum that stated that the I-line was verified by the fabs. The ICRD and SMIC is validating and helping in the developing of the maglev dual wafer stage immersion machine, they working as consortium in which SMIC along side NAURA, SMEE and others are part of and they are investors. To solve problems in the Chinese semiconductor industry, Kind like Sematech.

I Agree that the lithography machine development has been more obscure than other tools maybe to avoid scrutiny from ASML because is going to be really similar.
 

olalavn

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This has all the information we want to know (sometimes it's just rumors)

1/Huawei's Kirin chips are produced in Huawei's own chip factory. This chip factory was acquired and built by Huawei with a registered capital of 10 billion
2/ The domestic 28nm process technology DUV lithography machine is independently developed by Shanghai Microelectronics. Multiple exposures can produce 7nm chips. The DUV lithography machine has passed the acceptance and will be delivered soon.
3/

F5WLinFXkAAKns0.jpeg
 

liospopo

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SMSC fab project was announced in 2016. You can look up who the other partners of that JV is

This production line only makes chips for Huawei because Chinese govt is probably telling SMIC you need to support Huawei.

Stop disrespecting other players in the Chinese semiconductor industry.

Hisilicon is clearly the best chip designer in China, but it is just one key part of a large industry

anyways, some interesting stuff about Pro+

DRAM increased to 16GB from 12GB on Pro
Camera improvement also

+the most interesting one for me is the dual support of Tiantong & Beidou 2-way SMS communication. That means the chip tech got even better to support both tiantong satellites and beidou satellites
I am not even talking about SMIC. And it's really not that hard for a company like Huawei to became an IDM.
It‘s not disrespect, it's "Huawei is HUGE, so it must do MORE".
 

bzhong05

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This has all the information we want to know (sometimes it's just rumors)

1/Huawei's Kirin chips are produced in Huawei's own chip factory. This chip factory was acquired and built by Huawei with a registered capital of 10 billion
2/ The domestic 28nm process technology DUV lithography machine is independently developed by Shanghai Microelectronics. Multiple exposures can produce 7nm chips. The DUV lithography machine has passed the acceptance and will be delivered soon.
3/

View attachment 118419
So Huawei has, as a matter of fact, become an IDM?
 
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