Chinese semiconductor industry

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hvpc

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horse said:
That is what I believe, after reading these reports, and comparing numbers.

This is the world's best 7nm chip.

It almost reaches 5nm performance!

That brings up an interesting commercial scenario, it that if China Inc. had a choice between using a 5nm chip from TSMC or this 7nm Kirin chip, and since they are roughly comparable, why bother with the 5nm chip, when it will cost more?

They won't bother with it.

Therefore, this 7nm is here to stay for a while.

Therefore, this report EUV project in China, is mainly geared to make the 3nm chip or 2nm chip or 1nm chip if possible. They could skip the 5nm chip with this 7nm Kirin9000S chip.

No wonder the Chinese are angry about this chip war. They spent so much money, just to make a 3nm chip?

If that is the case, they will want a little more of a pound of flesh out of this fight.

:D
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NO. You guys are just not getting it.

tsmc 5nm cell height is >25% smaller than SMIC N+2. So how the heck do you guys keep going back to the "N+2 has similar transistor density as tsmc 5nm conclusion"?
 
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supercat

supercat

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dingyibvs said:
That's a very interesting point raised by Dr. Lu at the end. He points out that Huawei's satellite chip communicates with a satellite 36,000km high (TianTong-1), which would be the geosynchronous orbit, and that it's able to make calls instead of just sending SMS. You only need 3 satellites in GEO to cover the whole planet. He sounded most impressed by this, described it as "eye-opening", particularly since it's in his area of interest. He postulates that Huawei must've made some breakthroughs in power consumption and antenna technology as before it required huge receivers to communicate with a GEO satellite.

I tend to agree with his assessment. While the Kirin9000s is a great achievement and a breakthrough for Chinese semi industry, it's something that's been done before elsewhere. This satellite communication technology is something groundbreaking and represents an incredible leap in technology which has never been done before anywhere in the world.
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Yes, the communication satellite system is composed of 3 satellites, which support video calls without mobile signal, while Huawei Mate 60 Pro provides 2-way SMS service.
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BTW, unlike the slick Huawei Mate 60 Pro, most satellite phones are quite bulky and ungainly, as the Iridium model for the US government demonstrates below.
TF3O7yB.jpg
 
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tokenanalyst

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This man can read my mind.​

ASML’s CEO warns for impact of migration restriction and isolating China.​


Peter Wennink, CEO of ASML, was a guest on the Dutch news tv program Nieuwsuur yesterday. He emphasized the need for knowledge migrants and warned of the economic consequences of isolating China. Wennink argues that excluding knowledge migrants and export restrictions imposed by the U.S. could weaken the Netherlands.

Wennink is also concerned about the economic relationship with China, especially concerning the export restrictions imposed by the Netherlands under pressure from the US. He believes isolating China is pointless, as the country has 1.4 billion inhabitants and will look for solutions when faced with European and US restrictions. Last week, Huawei launched the Mate 60 Pro. This phone reportedly uses a chip made in China.

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tonyget

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tphuang said:
well, I think what we believe doesn't matter. What the reality is matters.

a lot of the netizen claims are very optimistic. We will find out when the time comes how much improvement SMIC can make. Getting yield up isn't easy and SMIC is limited in tools it can use.

I really don't think the choice is between TSMC 5nm vs Kirin chip here. At end of the day, SMIC is very capacity/tools limited.

We've seen a lot of optimistic stuff from AMEC/NAURA recently, but those tools need time for validation. Maybe in 6 months, SMSC will be expanding again past the 20k limit that @hvpc refers to, but that all depends on SMIC actually completing validation of domestic equipments. It is a good thing they have a lot of ASML lithography still, because that overcomes a lot of other issues

As I said before, they need not 25k wpm of Finfet, they need at least 125k. Probably more like 200k. And a lot of more memory chip capacity to satisfy domestic demands. We are still in year 1 post October sanctions. Even in optimistic case (which means EUV prototype available), we are still 2 years from taking a real breather and 5 years from being able to mostly take care of domestic needs on logic side.

Memory chip side is a whole different and equally challenging ball game
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I wonder how many of SMIC's existing equipments can convert/use on 7nm production lines
 
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tokenanalyst

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tokenanalyst said:
Wennink is also concerned about the economic relationship with China, especially concerning the export restrictions imposed by the Netherlands under pressure from the US. He believes isolating China is pointless, as the country has 1.4 billion inhabitants and will look for solutions when faced with European and US restrictions. Last week, Huawei launched the Mate 60 Pro. This phone reportedly uses a chip made in China.
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And to add salt to injury once the have those solutions they will sell those to the Europeans and the US, directly or indirectly, to much of the horror of US and Europeans companies that once dominated the Chinese market.
 
tphuang

tphuang

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Alb said:
This seems to tally up with the roadmap:
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based on what hvpc says, this roadmap is not being met

I think we will have to wait a while to see what we end up getting. There is too much conflicting social media output right now

The best news any of us got is that Huawei has decided to go all in on Kirin and think it can sell 60 million phones next year. Because that tells us they expect the yield to be at a certain level & 7nm capacity at certain level. Maybe SN1 production will continue to just shift more production from 14nm to 7nm


Other news.

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Moore Threads has completed certification with JD cloud for S2000. It's validated with a whole host of domestic CPUs & OS (basically all the x86 and ARM domestic CPUs)

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Meta-Xs N100 GPU has been used by 眸瑞科技 to release first AI model "texture super-resolution" technology
 
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tokenanalyst

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Tuojing Technology: The semiconductor thin film deposition equipment (What they do) and "photolithography machine equipment"(What SMEE does) developed are widely used in the chip manufacturing process.​


The semiconductor thin film deposition equipment and lithography machine equipment developed by the company are both It is widely used in chip manufacturing, and the development of lithography machines (SMEE???? )will promote the sound development of the semiconductor industry chain and bring more market opportunities.
 
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