Chinese semiconductor industry

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tphuang

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I didn't mean to imply that all RF chips are in the SOC, only that all previous examples stuffed some 5G RFs into the SOCs and you would have to redesign to untangle that.

I just wanted to explain this is why there are conversations about 5G being part of the CPU. Huawei absolutely would have to develop their own external RF chips.

But as I already stated, the bigger problem was the filters that everyone was talking about. Which is now a solved problem. So unsurprisingly, Huawei is about to release new 5G phones.
I want to point out the RF chip & 5G modem aren't the same thing. SoC could come with 5G modem like Qualcomm Snapdragon X65 that comes with Snapdragon 8 or it could not, but RF Front end modules aren't the same as 5G modem as demonstrated here

Capture3.JPG
notice that 5G modem interacts with both RF transceiver and mmWave antenna module

you can see with this Samsung phone. modem is at separate location vs various pamid modules & fem modules + various other mobile ICs. All have a place in circuit board
Capture.JPG


And finally for the last flagship 5G Huawei phone the Mate 40, you can just see how much American/Japanese components are in there
Capture2.JPG
Sure, it uses Hisilicon 5G modem, but it also uses so much different RF components from different non domestic manufacturer. Aside from its own components, the only other domestic supplier it used was Switch from Maxscend

Again, Chinese smartphone makers try to integrate as many domestic suppliers as possible, but Maxscend & Vanchip really are not very capable. I'd imagine for most of this, Huawei has to replace them itelf. The filters are now likely made by memsonic and Maxscend and some CETC companies. It might also get tuners & switch from other suppliers, but most of the components has to be designed by Hisilicon. Although Vanchip claims to produce PAMID, I would imagine that just integrates foreign RF filters
 

PopularScience

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Maybe we should aim a little higher than that. Even Loongson 6000 series is supposedly Zen2 to Zen3 in performance

I would hope that Huawei can design chips better than that


This is the problem with Europeans. They have no idea that they are behind here, so they think some Chinese business man need access to their product in order to supply Chinese military when PLA is using power chip/RF technology way more advanced than the French.

Loongson 6000 was measured in performance per gigahertz. But in reality it barely reached 3 gigahertz.
 

tonyget

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This is the problem with Europeans. They have no idea that they are behind here, so they think some Chinese business man need access to their product in order to supply Chinese military when PLA is using power chip/RF technology way more advanced than the French.

Don't know about military,but in commercial space,European companies such as ST and Infineon are still global leaders in compound semiconductor. Even in China they have much larger market share than Chinese local companies
 

gelgoog

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ST Micro used to have an edge in MEMS and FD-SOI fabrication. I do not know how things are with regards to MEMS in China. But I only heard of like one company trying to use SOI and that was Hua Hong at HLMC. Never heard of it again though.
 

tphuang

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Don't know about military,but in commercial space,European companies such as ST and Infineon are still global leaders in compound semiconductor. Even in China they have much larger market share than Chinese local companies
I have posted quite a bit of gan stuff in this thread. St and infineon advantages are in sic and high voltage stuff, not rf gan
 

staplez

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I want to point out the RF chip & 5G modem aren't the same thing. SoC could come with 5G modem like Qualcomm Snapdragon X65 that comes with Snapdragon 8 or it could not, but RF Front end modules aren't the same as 5G modem as demonstrated here

View attachment 116553
notice that 5G modem interacts with both RF transceiver and mmWave antenna module

you can see with this Samsung phone. modem is at separate location vs various pamid modules & fem modules + various other mobile ICs. All have a place in circuit board
View attachment 116554


And finally for the last flagship 5G Huawei phone the Mate 40, you can just see how much American/Japanese components are in there
View attachment 116555
Sure, it uses Hisilicon 5G modem, but it also uses so much different RF components from different non domestic manufacturer. Aside from its own components, the only other domestic supplier it used was Switch from Maxscend

Again, Chinese smartphone makers try to integrate as many domestic suppliers as possible, but Maxscend & Vanchip really are not very capable. I'd imagine for most of this, Huawei has to replace them itelf. The filters are now likely made by memsonic and Maxscend and some CETC companies. It might also get tuners & switch from other suppliers, but most of the components has to be designed by Hisilicon. Although Vanchip claims to produce PAMID, I would imagine that just integrates foreign RF filters
Oops your right. I meant modem is built in but the RF chips still need filters. Your completely right. I got the details mixed up. Thanks!
 

Franklin

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I don't expect Chinese CPUs or SoC to be prevalent in consumer laptop/tablet market until Huawei can ramp up production of its Kunpeng chips. Maybe that's a 2025 timeline, since SMSC fab 2 is coming online next yr
Who is using those Loongson chips from SMIC if there are no consumer desktops and laptops with that chip.
 

Overbom

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Le Parisien, which first reported on the case, also discovered that a Beijing-based Chinese businessman with ties to China’s defense industry had bought 94% of Ommic’s shares via a French-based investment fund in 2018. French authorities have stripped the majority stake of this Chinese investor while temporarily placing the company under state control before its sale to Macom.
Oh look, another western theft

Has France paid back the money to the Chinese businessman yet?
 
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