Chinese semiconductor industry

Phead128 · Jul 29, 2023

I've visited a Xiaomi and HONOR store, those laptops use Intel chips. Are there any Chinese laptops that use Chinese hardware like CPU, RAM, SSD, etc...? I was to support Chinese domestic industry. Please suggest some options where to find, thank you!

ansy1968 · Jul 29, 2023

pbd456 said:
I google the list budget 5g phones and then look at the processors for each of them， they use 7nm 6nm and 5nm process. I guess maybe 10 or 12nm can't support a 5g phone? (My phone is on 12nm process so I have no idea how do these advance phone feel like)
The cheapest 5g phone that I can find is around 150usd ( which is more expensive all phones that I have.)

I am just puzzle because I recall the Huawei phone from last year can turn to 5g by adding a case. So I thought the SoC isn't a constraint

Me too, I heard about 5g Kirin chip making an appearance last May and nothing come out of it. Maybe Huawei had found a solution and something better, it connect with @olalavn previous post about Huawei launching a 5g chip using SMIC N+1 instead of 14nm chiplet.

sunnymaxi · Jul 29, 2023

ansy1968 said:
Me too, I heard about 5g Kirin chip making an appearance last May and nothing come out of it. Maybe Huawei had found a solution and something better, it connect with @olalavn previous post about Huawei launching a 5g chip using SMIC N+1 instead of 14nm chiplet.

very strong rumors on Weibo from trusted accounts Kirin 5G chip returning back at the end of this year with SMIC N+1. and we have seen domestic companies made breakthrough in indigenous BAW filter to produce 5G chip in mainland.

@olalavn saying 5G kirin chip is in testing process with SMIC N+1 ..

Chinese firms working on RF local supply chain.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1684296984998412288

pbd456 · Jul 29, 2023

Phead128 said:
I've visited a Xiaomi and HONOR store, those laptops use Intel chips. Are there any Chinese laptops that use Chinese hardware like CPU, RAM, SSD, etc...? I was to support Chinese domestic industry. Please suggest some options where to find, thank yo

Phead128 said:
I've visited a Xiaomi and HONOR store, those laptops use Intel chips. Are there any Chinese laptops that use Chinese hardware like CPU, RAM, SSD, etc...? I was to support Chinese domestic industry. Please suggest some options where to find, thank you!

My guess is that it would be difficult to go to mainstream retailer because most laptop are bundled with OS that people are familiar with, and those OSs don't tend to support Chinese hardware.

resistance · Jul 29, 2023

Maybe next economic stimulation will be like free tablet for every student right after having full domestic supply chain by giving coupon.
The condition of coupon is can be using for domestic semiconductor only.

pbd456 said:
My guess is that it would be difficult to go to mainstream retailer because most laptop are bundled with OS that people are familiar with, and those OSs don't tend to support Chinese hardware.

tphuang · Jul 29, 2023

ansy1968 said:
Correct now SMIC is able to produce a 8nm N+1 chip with acceptable yield and Huawei can package it. I also learn that Huawei are able to source locally and produced themselves a 5g RF antenna.

no, SMIC produces 7nm, period.

pbd456 said:
If the 5g chips are not integrated to SoC, what is the reason that Huawei phone didn't have 5g? Is it because of condition of buying Qualcomm chip that is imposed on Huawei?

Qualcomm also designs their own RF modules, you can see it here

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an update from the guy that announced the Kirin 5G chip

2 different phones using 5G

Here is the most important part to consider. What will it use for RF front end? We know American companies cannot provide them this stuff. I looked up Vanchip & maxscend, and their progress is pitiful. So, it makes all the sense in the world that Hisilicon would develop these integrated RF front end solution on its own once it can find domestic sources of BAW, SAW, PA, LNA, RF switches and such

It's a pretty big deal if Hisilicon is doing this, because very few companies are capable of it

tokenanalyst · Jul 29, 2023

FairAndUnbiased said:
Wonder where the mechanical constraints are. By Earnshaw theorem, it is mathematically impossible for any 3D configuration of static magnets to be mechanically stable. To achieve mechanical stability there has to be a mechanical constraint like a mechanical bearing to prevent full 3D motion, or the configuration isn't static (i.e. the magnets are constantly being adjusted via feedback mechanisms).

Looks like they are using a Halbach array for the bottom plate.

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Integrated optimization of 3D structural topology and 2D Halbach parameters for maglev planar motor

With the increasing demand of mechanical stiffness performance and electromagnetic performance of maglev planar motor, especially the moving-magnet motor with Halbach array, an integrated optimization with 3D structural optimization and magnet parameter optimization is proposed and executed in this paper. The macroscopic electromagnetic performances consisting of thrust-mass ratio and power dissipation are taken as the optimization objective, which improves the performance more directly and comprehensively than traditional optimization methods. A streamlined dual-loop optimization framework is constructed and proved to be able to reduce the computational consumption by tens of times compared to the initial conventional framework, authentically guaranteeing a smooth integrated optimization. At the outer loop of the optimization framework, this paper proposes an oriented strategy for the individuals of Genetic Algorithm (GA) to quickly meet the strict constraints. The integrated optimization method solves the parameter coupling problem between electromagnet and stiffness. Compared to existing optimized structure, the resulting structure improves the thrust-mass ratio by 7.7%, power dissipation by 12.8% and natural frequency by 16.6%, respectively. Mechatronic experimental results in maglev planar motor systems show that the proposed integrated optimization can significantly improve the control bandwidth and reduce the current consumption, laying the foundation for better performance in practical applications.

staplez · Jul 29, 2023

pbd456 said:
I google the list budget 5g phones and then look at the processors for each of them， they use 7nm 6nm and 5nm process. I guess maybe 10 or 12nm can't support a 5g phone? (My phone is on 12nm process so I have no idea how do these advance phone feel like)
The cheapest 5g phone that I can find is around 150usd ( which is more expensive all phones that I have.)

I am just puzzle because I recall the Huawei phone from last year can turn to 5g by adding a case. So I thought the SoC isn't a constraint

Hmm... There seems to be a lot of confusion about how SOC or System on a Chip works. Basically, there's a lot of both cost savings as well as performance boosts to make mobile phone CPU's a SOC, which means adding the GPU and 5G chip into one single chip or SOC. While there's no hard set rule that you have to bundle them like that, the benefits means basically everyone does it.

Now of course you could make the 5G a separate chip. However, no one did that. So Huawei would have to develop one from the ground up. There's no magic sauce here, it was always going to take Huawei some time to do this. However, on top of that China didn't have the proper filters like the BAW filters everyone is talking about. Well now China does.

So NOW Huawei could make a separate 5G chip and I believe they likely will for their high end phones. For their mid range phones it appears they've made their own new mid range SOC.

tphuang · Jul 29, 2023

sunnymaxi said:
very strong rumors on Weibo from trusted accounts Kirin 5G chip returning back at the end of this year with SMIC N+1. and we have seen domestic companies made breakthrough in indigenous BAW filter to produce 5G chip in mainland.

Chinese firms working on RF local supply chain.

btw, we barely know anything around here. I will just say that I've heard more, but I'm embarrassed to give more details. And it's prudent to not overshare in some cases. I only dared to post that after all these Western media came out with their HW/SMIC/Kirin/5G stuff. They are obviously off on some details and don't understand others, I think we can discuss that here & not with others.

Not enough people see the importance of GA sanction in conjunction with Huawei developing its own RF solution.

As I said, Qorvo, Wolfspeed, skyworks & broadcom are probably all major suppliers to us military, but also depend heavily on demand from China market. If China is able to supply RF FE to its own phone companies, then that's disastrous to America's RF industry & will cause degradation to their R&D

tphuang · Jul 29, 2023

staplez said:
Hmm... There seems to be a lot of confusion about how SOC or System on a Chip works. Basically, there's a lot of both cost savings as well as performance boosts to make mobile phone CPU's a SOC, which means adding the GPU and 5G chip into one single chip or SOC. While there's no hard set rule that you have to bundle them like that, the benefits means basically everyone does it.

Now of course you could make the 5G a separate chip. However, no one did that. So Huawei would have to develop one from the ground up. There's no magic sauce here, it was always going to take Huawei some time to do this. However, on top of that China didn't have the proper filters like the BAW filters everyone is talking about. Well now China does.

So NOW Huawei could make a separate 5G chip and I believe they likely will for their high end phones. For their mid range phones it appears they've made their own new mid range SOC.

Screen Shot 2023-07-29 at 11.03.16 AM.png

Here is the RF & power chips on a Xiaomi phone. So let's get something strait here. SoC does not include all these RF modules. The RF chips are all over your circuit board on a smartphone. Just look at that, all American companies. Huawei has to develop its own integrated power management, RF modules & analog circuitry
I'm sure it has been working this all along to ship more and more of its chips to domestic sources (most likely by Hisilicon), so in this case, it's probably just referring to stuff like PA modules & RF Fusion modules that it still needs to design with domestic SAW/BAW filters

Chinese semiconductor industry

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Integrated optimization of 3D structural topology and 2D Halbach parameters for maglev planar motor

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Chinese semiconductor industry

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Integrated optimization of 3D structural topology and 2D Halbach parameters for maglev planar motor​

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Integrated optimization of 3D structural topology and 2D Halbach parameters for maglev planar motor