Chinese semiconductor industry

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tphuang

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In term of tools, software and materials I think the Chinese supply chain is not just getting more of it but also is growing faster. There is just much more incentive in China to develop this part of the semiconductor supply chain than in SK and Taiwan who can just get everything they need.
I think SK equipment dependency is about 80%, Taiwan is about 70% and in China is about 50%.
I agree that China has a full supply chain, whereas SK & Taiwan only has a partial SME industry. It's possible that in certain equipment types, SK is at the same level as China.

It's also quite likely they don't want to over reveal and are being humble.

I think more relevant is that they know they still have work to do to catch up to the top tier SMEs
 

tphuang

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More from Sanan

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Sanan already has Sic MOSFETs orders exceeding 7B RMB & in negotiation w/ more NEV customers

Sanan invested 16B RMB in Hunan fab, production rate already 15k wpm of Sic & 2k wpm of GaN. Looking to raise SiC to 30k wpm this yr

Hunan plant is a large integrated Sic fab. Looks like it's got plenty of orders on book for even more fab if it wanted

They had their Q2 earnings reported yesterday
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IC unit is up 10%, but profit down due to LED wafer weakness

Hunan Sanan, which produce Sic wafers, doubled in revenue

今年,三安光电在第三代半导体领域继续积极扩张,尤其想抓住国产碳化硅功率器件“上车”(用于新能源汽车)的机会。湖南三安在长沙投资160亿元的碳化硅全产业链工厂,二期工程预计年底完工,达产后年产能为50万片6英寸碳化硅晶圆。今年6月,三安光电还宣布将与意法半导体在重庆合资设立一座8英寸碳化硅晶圆制造厂,此外三安光电还将在重庆建一座8英寸碳化硅衬底工厂做配套材料。
update on capacity, looks like Hunan project expects to peak at 500k 6-inch wafers per year, that's more than the previously reported 30k wpm (360 wpy)

Again, got their chongqing JV with ST as well as another project to produce wafers for that JV.
 

horse

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I just don't think there is any reason TSMC would be allowed to produce chips for Huawei and so I commented with that

1. Agree. TSMC is not making and selling chips to Huawei. The ban is rather comprehensive.

2. Then again, is this a suggestion that TSMC is smuggling chips to Huawei in some way, shape, or form? Not sure if we can completely rule that out.

3. Maybe people just fishing for information about Huawei.
 

Eventine

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I'm surprised because Taiwan and Korea specialize in upstream industries and lack the size or incentive to develop complete supply chains.
Until recently, the same applied to China. It was the Huawei bans in 2019 that gave initial incentive and momentum to develop complete supply chains for chips. But even that didn't rally the country to action. Not until the 2022 bans from Biden that affected the entire Chinese technology industry, did Chinese companies get serious about the need to be self-reliant.

Blame it on historical short-term thinking and greed from Chinese electronics makers, if you will; but practically speaking, it isn't like China had the ability to actually invest heavily in this twenty years ago, or even ten years ago - its industries were still immature, it didn't have enough capital, and there were too many lower hanging fruits.

This is why I believe the US embargo on chips was planned well in advance, as opposed to being a knee jerk reaction to Huawei spying or its violation of US sanctions on Iran decades ago, as mainstream media would have you believe. The US was always going to suppress China, but they wanted to profit for as long as possible and weren't sure how long it'd take for China to get its house in order. It was Xi's Made in China 2025 campaign and tangible progress in China's technological development that caused the US to act. Their analysts saw the acceleration of China's technological achievements and knew it was "now or never."

Basically, the US was waiting for China to prove that it can actually innovate, because if it couldn't, then the US would've been able to profit off of China forever and basically treat it like a drug addict.

But China proved that it can innovate, so the US cracked down because it saw its own technological empire threatened.
 

ansy1968

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1. Agree. TSMC is not making and selling chips to Huawei. The ban is rather comprehensive.

2. Then again, is this a suggestion that TSMC is smuggling chips to Huawei in some way, shape, or form? Not sure if we can completely rule that out.

3. Maybe people just fishing for information about Huawei.
Bro from my understanding, Huawei ordered a lot of unfinished 7nm and 5nm chips from TSMC to beat the deadline and they themselves do the packaging And I think they're doing the same with SMIC. I don't know the inner workings in the semiconductor sector BUT from a business point of view, can you recorded an unfinished product sold as sales or something else?
 

SteelBird

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Now the timing of the Micron ban and the Ga Ge export restrictions make sense. China can now survive a full semiconductor equipment cutoff by the US and it's vassals. Can the US survive a full cutoff of semiconductor materials by China?
I'd like to remind you that Huawei's new 5G chips which are manufactured by SMIC used DUV machines which are still available to be purchased from ASML. The US may block sales of these DUV machines.
 

Proton

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Until recently, the same applied to China. It was the Huawei bans in 2019 that gave initial incentive and momentum to develop complete supply chains for chips. But even that didn't rally the country to action. Not until the 2022 bans from Biden that affected the entire Chinese technology industry, did Chinese companies get serious about the need to be self-reliant.

Blame it on historical short-term thinking and greed from Chinese electronics makers, if you will; but practically speaking, it isn't like China had the ability to actually invest heavily in this twenty years ago, or even ten years ago - its industries were still immature, it didn't have enough capital, and there were too many lower hanging fruits.

This is why I believe the US embargo on chips was planned well in advance, as opposed to being a knee jerk reaction to Huawei spying or its violation of US sanctions on Iran decades ago, as mainstream media would have you believe. The US was always going to suppress China, but they wanted to profit for as long as possible and weren't sure how long it'd take for China to get its house in order. It was Xi's Made in China 2025 campaign and tangible progress in China's technological development that caused the US to act. Their analysts saw the acceleration of China's technological achievements and knew it was "now or never."

Basically, the US was waiting for China to prove that it can actually innovate, because if it couldn't, then the US would've been able to profit off of China forever and basically treat it like a drug addict.

But China proved that it can innovate, so the US cracked down because it saw its own technological empire threatened.
Just a counter point:
Huawei sanctions largely coincided with Huawei overtaking Samsung and Apple in the global Smartphone market, even fully inserting itself in the premium segment securing vast supplies of the most advanced chips from TSMC. (Let's remember the leading edge of semiconductors is all about squeezing out the highest profit margins from the consumer segment.)

I'd say the Trump administration correctly identified Huawei as an immediate and existential threat to Apple and acted decisively to protect vital American industries.
 
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