oh, I didn't mean for it to come across that way. Just saying that this is a tough market for fabs.@tphuang, you are too tough on them. They are getting good gross margin of 32% and net profit of 22.3% and operating at >103% of wafer capacity. They have highest utilization in the foundry segment and more profitable than SMIC. Considering the market condition, I think this is good performance.
This is the expansion is for HuaHong Fab7 in Wuxi. This should be for the first fab in Wuxi, not the second fab. Fab7 currently at 65K wpm and merely competing the original plan ramp to 95K wpm.
For more detailed info on Huahong’s 1Q23 result, this is the actual presentation material directly from HuaHong:
ok. my bad for misunderstanding.oh, I didn't mean for it to come across that way. Just saying that this is a tough market for fabs.
I know, huh! It's a pleasant surprise when everyone is at 70%ish utilization and HH is above 100% UT.Their utilization is definitely quite astonishing at this time.
hmmm, interesting, where did you get the info that they will have 95K wpm by 23Q2? In my record, I wasn't expect Fab7 to have 95K capacity until early 2024. I think Fab7 are still taking delivery of equipment. Then it will take awhile longer before they release these equipment and make the additional capacity official.One question though, I thought they said they were at 65k at end of last year and expected to reach 95k by Q2. Now, it sounds like they are taking all year to do it. Do you know anything about that?
Key words: produced in six months.saw another article about it here
very similar in content
this to me is the interesting part
They are going after the whole market
Price war?I know, huh! It's a pleasant surprise when everyone is at 70%ish utilization and HH is above 100% UT.
Probably not. Huahong’s gross margin is still pretty high. You’d expect the margin to be lower if they are in a price war. Their average price per wafer seems to still be trending up.Hi Price war?
are IGBTs and MCUs both in discrete? I'm under the impression they have a lot of orders from NEVs, charging stations & renewable stuffProbably not. Huahong’s gross margin is still pretty high. You’d expect the margin to be lower if they are in a price war. Their average price per wafer seems to still be trending up.
I did hear awhile time ago that HH has bulk of government’s business on ID chips and also domestic credit card/debit card chip business. my take away is their business from these sources is quite stable and that SMIC is more engaged in consumer market. Perhaps this is why HH is not as impacted by weakness in the consumer sectors. But this is just my speculation.
Edit:
I tried checking my speculation and looked up their quarterly presentation, embeddedNVM would be where chip on smart cards would be bucketed. eNVM is a big chunk of HH’s business and there’s a big Q/Q uptick. So maybe the speculation could be not far from the truth ??
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That's just what I kept thinking I read in their various earnings calls from last year, that they were at 65k at end of last year and was going to grow to 95% by end of Q2. I always thought that really fast. Which is why I couldn't figure out why it took until 4 months ago before they announced the second Wuxi fab. It makes much more sense now if they are going to take until first half of 2024 to reach 95k.hmmm, interesting, where did you get the info that they will have 95K wpm by 23Q2? In my record, I wasn't expect Fab7 to have 95K capacity until early 2024. I think Fab7 are still taking delivery of equipment. Then it will take awhile longer before they release these equipment and make the additional capacity official.
IGBT would be under discrete.are IGBTs and MCUs both in discrete? I'm under the impression they have a lot of orders from NEVs, charging stations & renewable stuff