Chinese semiconductor industry

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antonius123

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Sir remember Huawei Kirin 9006C 5nm chips. :) people where astounded how Huawei were able to produce such chips with TSMC restriction being imposed on them, well the answer is Huawei are doing the packaging with the unfinished chip being bought en masses before the deadline. Here the same is happening with SMIC unfinished12NM and 14NM chips.;)

Unexpectedly, the new 5nm Kirin Kirin 9006C came out. Who is OEM for Huawei?​



Due to changes in the international situation and changes in the US semiconductor market rules, Huawei's Kirin chips were forced to suspend production after September 2020.
As we all know, the Kirin chip is Huawei's self-developed chip, which has been applied to Huawei mobile phones before. After the production of Kirin chips was discontinued, the output of Huawei's mobile phones was inevitably affected, which led to a decline in mobile phone sales.

Unexpectedly, the new 5nm Kirin Kirin 9006C came out. Who is OEM for Huawei?

Zhongguancun Online reported on December 3 that Huawei's new MateBook still uses the Kirin chip, and it is the Kirin 9006C that has never appeared before.
It should be noted that this processor, named Kirin 9006C, uses a 5nm process. Not to mention the performance of this chip, the use of the 5nm process alone is surprising enough.

You know, looking at the world, only TSMC and Samsung can achieve mass production of 5nm process , but these two foundries are unlikely to produce advanced 5nm process chips for Huawei at this time.
So, the question is, who is it that made the Kirin chip for Huawei? There are divergent opinions on this issue on the Internet. Although there is no exact statement at present, there are also two speculations.
Unexpectedly, the new 5nm Kirin Kirin 9006C came out. Who is OEM for Huawei?


The first is that Kirin 9006C is a chip previously produced by TSMC ;
There is one thing to say that the appearance of the Kirin 9006C at this time is really a bit abrupt. After all, after the Huawei 9000 chip, Huawei has not launched a new Kirin chip, and there is currently no foundry that can produce 5nm chips for Huawei.
Given that Huawei's current chip inventory is still a mystery, it is not clear how many Kirin chips Huawei has, and how many Kirin chips are in stock. Therefore, the Kirin 9006C is likely to be a chip produced by TSMC and Huawei during the cooperation.

The second argument is that Kirin 9006C is transformed from Kirin 9000 ;
This argument is not a vacancy. From the perspective of parameters, the Kirin 9006C and the Kirin 9000 chip have certain similarities.
Unexpectedly, the new 5nm Kirin Kirin 9006C came out. Who is OEM for Huawei?


Kirin 9006C and Kirin 9000 both use 5nm process and also have a 3.13GHz Cortex-A77 super core. Although the GPU is different, the difference is not big. The GPU of Kirin 9006C is Mali-G78 MP22, while Kirin 9000 is Mali-G78 MP24. Therefore, from the perspective of parameters, the Kirin 9006C is likely to be a modified version of the Kirin 9000.
No matter how the Kirin 9006C came about, its advent is a good thing for Huawei. It can not only enhance the competitiveness of Huawei's products, but also increase Huawei's market influence.
In recent years, the strength of Huawei's Kirin chips has never disappointed consumers, and the self-developed Kirin chips have become a competitive advantage of Huawei products in the market. According to reports from Zhongguancun Online, Kirin 9006C is a product with stronger performance and lower power consumption. Huawei's new MateBook adopts this chip, which will inevitably enhance product competitiveness.
Unexpectedly, the new 5nm Kirin Kirin 9006C came out. Who is OEM for Huawei?


In addition, Huawei's current situation is very difficult, especially for HiSilicon Kirin chips. As mentioned in the previous article, Huawei HiSilicon has not launched new products since Kirin 9000. In addition, the inventory of products equipped with Kirin chips is decreasing. Huawei or Said that the market influence of Huawei HiSilicon Kirin chips is gradually weakening.
Although Kirin 9006C is not a chip for smart phone products, as a member of the Kirin family, its advent will inevitably usher in a large wave of attention, thereby enhancing the competitiveness of Huawei and Huawei HiSilicon in the market.
Not only that, although Huawei HiSilicon Kirin chips are no longer in production, Huawei has not given up HiSilicon, and has not disbanded the HiSilicon team. But it should be noted that if you want to maintain the normal operation of Huawei HiSilicon, you need to invest a lot of money. After Kirin 9006C enters the market, it can increase economic income to a certain extent and reduce Huawei's pressure.

Is it possible the Kirin 9000 is the 14nm with 3D stack that reach performance equal to 5nm?
 

tphuang

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Guys, why are we posting like China's semi strategy is working? The gap between China vs US & Allies in core tech is substantial and has probably widened over recent years.

1) Samsung/TSMC started mass producing 10nm logic chips in 2017 (6 years+ gap). The distance was more like 5 years for 14nm and 3 years for 28nm. Sanctions were only part of the reason. China's largest source of progress came from headhunting and licensing/espionage among second tier founderies and SME vendors like UMC and Nikon. As they gave up advancing into the next node, so did China's progress.

2) The only reason China's 12/14nm process is still in operation, is because US relented to Dutch demands to keep supplying 14nm equipment. The picture is even more bleak for Chinese SMEs vendors. ASML 28/32nm SMEs were mature by 2011 while SSA800 has been delayed for years (12 years+ gap and counting?).

3) Comparatively, C919 was delivered in 2023, while the A320 Neo arrived back in 2016 (7 years+ gap). Chinese CJ-1000A engines are planned for 2030? That's easily (14+ years) behind LEAP.

4) What I also noticed was that nationalists hail lab/risk production results like Huawei EUV patents and SMIC 7nm multi-patterning as if it had grand implications. It's one thing to file patents and smuggle in small tools/materials to customize masks, it's another to build mass produce logic chips to actually reach "self-sufficiency." In fact, some of these vanity achievements probably took away valuable resources from scalable projects.

5) Regardless, that is not to say that China's industrial strategy hasn't worked. YMTC and CATL are probably closer to their Korean/Japanese counterparts than they'd like. However, like the 28nm process, these are heavily commoditized technologies, where scale matters more than cutting edge processes in lowering costs.

I wish the best for China. However let's be realistic here. It's a fantasy to believe that the country can ever replicate the entire developed world's technological progress by itself. China is probably 7 years behind in fabrication/assembly and double that in equipment/engines. The Chinese leadership knows this. Hence the gap will likely grow, given the recent suspension of subsidies.

It's too earlly to raise heads and pump chests. Between BRI, COVID policies, wolf-warrior diplomacy with India and Australia, Xi really brought this upon China himself. Better to lower heads and do the basic sciences, improve intellectual property protection, stop fighting with India and Taiwan, like Deng and Jiang did. If there's ever a conflict with the US, Chinese will be lucky to still have IPhone 5s (yes that's how old 28nm is).

I was going to just delete this post for being very off topic, but I will just keep it here for reference to all newbies to explain everything that's wrong here. And for the sake of this thread, please nobody replies to it anymore
1) Brings political stuff in here. This is a semiconductor thread, not a thread for you to discuss China's COVID policies and Xi's policies
2) This is a semiconductor thread, not a geopolitical thread about your views on BRI or wolf warrior diplomacy.
3) This is a semiconductor thread, not a thread about China's industrial policies. Frankly, if you have no idea about China's progress in other tech fields, you probably shouldn't be talking about it here.
4) This is a semiconductor thread, not a Chinese aerospace thread. You might want to take your views about C919 and CJ1000A in one of the 3 appropriate threads for that in the air force forum.
5) x vs y is not encouraged on this forum, especially one that causes deeply emotional and heated discussion as this particular thread. When I say this is an actively moderated thread, it's an actively moderated one
6) For a newbie like yourself, you have a lot of nerve to start off by antagonizing everyone on this forum. At least have some respect for people of this thread and ask questions rather than go immediately into attacking other people's views.

Consider yourself warned for an absolutely appalling first post on SDF!

Edit: this post was still causing responses, so I deleted the original post. Please carry with semiconductor talk.
 
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mmbro

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Some info related to CN's semicon is listed inside the twitter thread,


3/12 SIA 2022 Report In 2021, the US led in 3 semiconductor industry segments: EDA & Core IP at a 72% global market share, chip design 49%, and manufacturing equipment 42%.

Taiwan led in materials 23% and was 2nd in wafer fabrication 19% behind only South Korea 21%.

 

ansy1968

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Is it possible the Kirin 9000 is the 14nm with 3D stack that reach performance equal to 5nm?
Bro from my understanding it can't cause IF it does then Huawei will launch its topline smartphone. I'm no expert BUT the excerpt from our esteem members 14nm 3D chiplet is comparable in performance to TSMC 7nm therefore good enough for Huawei midfield phone.
 

tonyget

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lithography machines are not the only machines holding back full domestic 28 nm process. Based on announcements from past couple of weeks, seem like a couple of other items for 55nm process only became available to ICRD in the past quarter.

Yes. It seems that there are parts other than lithography machine holding back the process.
 

tphuang

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The performance of some of the subsystem can even meet the requirements of 14nm

I guess the 1.35 NA lens, the 6Khz 90 W light source.

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嗯,某些子系统的性能甚至已能满足14nm的制造要求
Thanks. Based on what I read from his posts, it sounds like putting grating inferometer on DUVi was the biggest hurdle, but I need to catch up with his latest comments

I'd guess Chinese equipment still not in volume production for 28nm is

1. Ion implantation

2. Wafer inspection and dimension measurement CD-SEM

Maybe someone with more insider information/knowledge can complete the list....
yeah, i think we are all guessing at this point. It's not in Chinese semi industry's interest for this information to get out. We are having so much trouble guessing how SMIC has been able to increase production at SMSC plants. Not something they want the Americans to figure out.
 
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