Chinese semiconductor industry
- Thread starter Hendrik_2000
- Start date
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Yeah that's why they're trying to force TSMC to make a EUV plant in the US to basically steal their process.
Once they got that down Taiwan can be abandoned. Thus Taiwan cannot afford to lose its edge or US will abandon it. It's a significant leverage.
The US sanction on SMIC is really focus on advance process of 14nm and below, in this video it indicates that SMIC supply and spare parts will be good for only 6 months therefore will affect the mass production of 14nm , N+1 and also the development of N+2. Now I understand the appointment of Mr Jiang, since 14nm only account for 14% of SMIC revenue he need to rationalize things in the short term, while waiting for the local replacement to mature. I hope Mr Liang will come to terms of SMIC difficulties and agree for an amicable settlement to stay and help. This kind of strategy is so typical of the US, divide and conquer, only standing up and putting up a united front can we overcome this adversity.
Skywatcher
Captain
Wait, since the restrictions are for only uniquely sub 10nm process equipment, than SMIC should be able to continue 14nm (and even N+1 and N+2) indefinitely, unless they need to replace current American equipment with other American equipment.
Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
Yes a big loop hole you can drive a truck thru it From Asia times meanwhile China start up poach large number of EDa engineer from the like of Synopsys and Cadence with tacit agreement from both companies since they too invest in the newstart up
Senators Marco Rubio (R-FL) and Rep. Michael McCaul (R-TX) Dec. 22 that the new controls announced on SMIC, China’s largest chip fabricator, have a big loophole: The new rules apply only to equipment that is “uniquely” required to produce the most advanced logic chips, with a transistor gate width of 10 nanometers or below. But there’s no clear definition of what “unique” means, so “the Department of Commerce seems to be allowing SMIC access to nearly all semiconductor manufacturing equipment – undercutting the effectiveness of its nominal intent.
According to , China’s market for electronic design automation (EDA) tools will grow at a 12% compound annual rate during the next seven years, twice as fast as the rest of the world. China’s EDA market will reach $3.9 billion by 2027, compared to a present US market of $2.8 billion. Companies like Cadence and Synopsys can’t maintain their leading position if they are excluded from the the world’s fastest growing (and soon biggest) market for their products.
That is the “parochial commercial interest” to which Rubio and McCaul referred. When China hawks in the Trump Administration first proposed a ban on Chinese purchases of US semiconductor technology a year ago, the Department of Defense objected, warning that the damage to the revenues of American equipment and software providers would stifle their research and development spending, threatening national security. President Trump initially sided with the Pentagon against the Commerce Department, but switched his position after he blamed China for the Covid-19 epidemic in March.
Top executives of Synopsis and Cadence quit last year to start up EDA firms, including X-Epic, Shanghai Hejian, and Amedac. A former top manager at Synopsys China who earlier worked for cadence, Wang Libin, founded X-Epic in March 2020, at precisely the moment when the Trump Administration wheeled out restrictions on sales of US semiconductor technology to Huawei. Dr Wang hired other top engineers from American EDA firms. Two months later another Synopsys engineer founded Shanghai Hejian with funding from the Shanghai municipal government investment fund as well as Chinese venture capitalists.
Another startup headed by a top Synopsys engineer, Amedac, opened its doors in September 2019. In this case Synopsys took a 20% stake in the firm, in partnership with China’s Academy of Sciences. As China reduces its dependence on software tools subject to control by the US government, Synopsys’ stake in Amedac is an insurance policy against its eventual loss of market share.
A number of Western commentators warn that Chinese’s ascent up the learning curve of chip design and fabrication will not be easy, and that it may take years to lift Chinese capacities up to American levels. But a senior executive at a Chinese semiconductor firm commented, “These people don’t understand China. In America everyone thinks in terms of efficiency, and efficiency means return on equity and a rising price. The Chinese don’t care about that when national security is involved. If they have to, they’ll put 10,000 engineers on a problem and work day and night until they solve it.”
The ban on US exports of high-end chips to Huawei hasn’t slowed the buildout of China’s 5G network, but it has added to the cost. As reported in Asia Times Dec. 2, Huawei has installed locally-made chips in its 5G ground stations, rather than the more efficient chips formerly fabricated for Huawei in Taiwan. The chips have the same functionality, but electricity usage is substantially higher.
China also has access to semiconductor fabricating equipment outside the United States, although firms like Applied Materials and LAM still dominate some segments of the complex, variegated machinery market. China sales at Tokyo Election, number three in the semiconductor equipment market by some rankings, doubled between 2018 and 2019. The US may put pressure on Tokyo Electron to limit equipment sales to China, as it did in the case of Holland’s ASML, but Japan is less likely to accept American dictates on its China trade after the signing of the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership trade pact earlier this year.
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Senators Marco Rubio (R-FL) and Rep. Michael McCaul (R-TX) Dec. 22 that the new controls announced on SMIC, China’s largest chip fabricator, have a big loophole: The new rules apply only to equipment that is “uniquely” required to produce the most advanced logic chips, with a transistor gate width of 10 nanometers or below. But there’s no clear definition of what “unique” means, so “the Department of Commerce seems to be allowing SMIC access to nearly all semiconductor manufacturing equipment – undercutting the effectiveness of its nominal intent.
According to , China’s market for electronic design automation (EDA) tools will grow at a 12% compound annual rate during the next seven years, twice as fast as the rest of the world. China’s EDA market will reach $3.9 billion by 2027, compared to a present US market of $2.8 billion. Companies like Cadence and Synopsys can’t maintain their leading position if they are excluded from the the world’s fastest growing (and soon biggest) market for their products.
That is the “parochial commercial interest” to which Rubio and McCaul referred. When China hawks in the Trump Administration first proposed a ban on Chinese purchases of US semiconductor technology a year ago, the Department of Defense objected, warning that the damage to the revenues of American equipment and software providers would stifle their research and development spending, threatening national security. President Trump initially sided with the Pentagon against the Commerce Department, but switched his position after he blamed China for the Covid-19 epidemic in March.
Top executives of Synopsis and Cadence quit last year to start up EDA firms, including X-Epic, Shanghai Hejian, and Amedac. A former top manager at Synopsys China who earlier worked for cadence, Wang Libin, founded X-Epic in March 2020, at precisely the moment when the Trump Administration wheeled out restrictions on sales of US semiconductor technology to Huawei. Dr Wang hired other top engineers from American EDA firms. Two months later another Synopsys engineer founded Shanghai Hejian with funding from the Shanghai municipal government investment fund as well as Chinese venture capitalists.
Another startup headed by a top Synopsys engineer, Amedac, opened its doors in September 2019. In this case Synopsys took a 20% stake in the firm, in partnership with China’s Academy of Sciences. As China reduces its dependence on software tools subject to control by the US government, Synopsys’ stake in Amedac is an insurance policy against its eventual loss of market share.
A number of Western commentators warn that Chinese’s ascent up the learning curve of chip design and fabrication will not be easy, and that it may take years to lift Chinese capacities up to American levels. But a senior executive at a Chinese semiconductor firm commented, “These people don’t understand China. In America everyone thinks in terms of efficiency, and efficiency means return on equity and a rising price. The Chinese don’t care about that when national security is involved. If they have to, they’ll put 10,000 engineers on a problem and work day and night until they solve it.”
The ban on US exports of high-end chips to Huawei hasn’t slowed the buildout of China’s 5G network, but it has added to the cost. As reported in Asia Times Dec. 2, Huawei has installed locally-made chips in its 5G ground stations, rather than the more efficient chips formerly fabricated for Huawei in Taiwan. The chips have the same functionality, but electricity usage is substantially higher.
China also has access to semiconductor fabricating equipment outside the United States, although firms like Applied Materials and LAM still dominate some segments of the complex, variegated machinery market. China sales at Tokyo Election, number three in the semiconductor equipment market by some rankings, doubled between 2018 and 2019. The US may put pressure on Tokyo Electron to limit equipment sales to China, as it did in the case of Holland’s ASML, but Japan is less likely to accept American dictates on its China trade after the signing of the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership trade pact earlier this year.
is now live. Linking accurate news, insightful analysis and local knowledge with the ATF China Bond 50 Index, the world's first benchmark cross sector Chinese Bond Indices. now.
This situation is not just going to be left to private companies to pursue their own interests. Drug dealing, after all might be the interests of any or some of these Chinese companies. The state will assist and will probably establish the wherewithal itself to ensure that China is comprehensively self reliant in terms of capability along the entire length of the semiconductor related manufacturing chain for high end products. From the refining of silicon, the production of very high purity ingots and wafers, the making of photoresists, plasma and chemical vapours, the production of lithography machines and their components in entirety, the photomasks etc. China must have the capability of producing every single item along the length of production chain indigenously... NOT A SINGLE foreign entity should be relied upon.
I agree. The only tool that probably won't be produced in China for the forseeable future is the EUV litho machine. That is why it is important to put pressure on the Dutch goverment to issue the export license. Everything else should be 100% produced in China!
I used to work in the Semiconductor Industry in China but have moved on to something else. I still have connections with certain people in the Industry who regularly update me on the latest developments.
I like posting updates on the latest developments in the Industry in China just to drive people like Marco Rubio and Ron Vara Crazy.
I believe the Tape out and then the subsequent trial production of the N+1 (8nm) Chip has been successfully carried out lately.
Thats why Liang said that Risk Mass Production will happen in April 2021.
Risk Mass Production means real Mass production for an actual customer. So SMIC has already lined up some clients to supply the N+1 Chips to.
N+2 is the actual 7nm Chip apparently.
I posted some information about Chiplet technology a few pages back. You can refer to it.
But basically it means that for eg: a 7nm Chip,
with this technology, only certain minor parts of the Chip needs to be fabricated at 7nm, the other components of the Chip can be done at 14nm.
This will reduce cost of production and benefit producers like SMIC who maybe currently lack the latest production technology.
Hi WTAN,
Greetings of a merry Xmas
, a question from my previous post, is China had the capability to produce a domestic line of 8 inch and 12 inch wafer equipment?- Status