Chinese semiconductor industry

tokenanalyst said:

There already a lot of EUV technologies in China already since very early, including prototype machines. And the development of EUV in China just keep growing, already posted some of that stuff here and the rabbit hole is pretty deep. And yes there is a lot of patented technologies in EUV masks, pellicles and photoresists and there is already signs of commercial activity in China regarding EUV technologies, including EUV mask, maybe someday I will post some findings in the future or not. So is very probably that Huawei receiving a lot of support in this endeavor, I would not surprise if a bigger level of support than SMEE. Given the fact the Huawei can hire more people than SMEE.

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Huawei is not TSMC or SMIC, so for now it seems they just need some kind of EUV machine that can be used to make the most critical layers of their most advanced chips, so I don't think they are looking for something as performant as the ones that a big pure and play foundry needs. The patent make it to seem that they are looking something that can pattern an specific critical layer. Looks like everything else is going to be done with SMEE immersion and dry machines.

And the yes they are probably cutting through some of ASML patents, given the size of the portfolio that ASML has in China


They put a video in their own website and then remove it.

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I agree there were a ton of EUV technology being developed in China for years well before this point. Where I differ is from the paper you referred to for example, I would consider that to be academic research based development into the principles of EUV operation with regards to key sub-systems, principles, etc. The latest developments from Huawei and its partners (if true) I would consider to be a step ahead of that because it is moving towards more of the system integration and implementation of a full operational workflow that would approximate the end-to-end use sequence under expected operating conditions which is closer to the goal of a functional commercial system. I guess where I am coming from is that the latest developments (if true) are the next stage in evolution and development of the earlier work you pointed to. This is not to overlook those developments, but that those concepts are built upon by someone like Huawei into something that can fit their operational needs.

Agreed, Huawei will focus on something that fits their needs, EUV or otherwise and the level of performance will reflect that. That being said, I think their patent does reflect their requirements from an EUV setup since it may be specific to their process of patterning certain layers as you pointed out. That is just my speculation, and we will have to see how the final implementation shapes out.

PopularScience said:

I think it means produce few k wafer per month in actual production environment.

60w

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Does this mean they are waiting for systems to be deployed and operational at SMIC/YMTC/Etc before proceeding to mass production. What does this mean for the testing that was taking place at ICRD for the final test units?

ZeEa5KPul said:

I wonder who else is and who this "other institute" is

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surprise for me that you don't know.

Changchun Institute of Optics, Fine Mechanics and Physics..

along with Huawei and other institutes for EUV subsystems. looks like a joint effort.

is there any infographic that explains all the terminology here and what is more advanced / advanced etc?

phrozenflame said:

is there any infographic that explains all the terminology here and what is more advanced / advanced etc?

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Here you go. Semiconductor is a bit more involved than a single infographic, here's a 500 page textbook.

olalavn said:

wow, Moore Thread has completed the investment... their own structure...
View attachment 103961

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People are really missing this one

近期，摩尔线程联合数家OEM合作伙伴斩获了大型央企和大型国有银行台式机采购大单，上万台搭载摩尔线程MTT S系列显卡的国产PC将广泛应用于我国电信、金融行业的数字办公业务场景，将显著提升国产PC的应用体验

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That's 10k+ orders just now for all domestic GPUs. If we say that the GPUs they are selling is $250 each, then that is close to $3 million orders just recently for domestic financial and telecom companies. This is just the beginning. I've shown earlier in the thread several domestic PCs that are now using Moore Threads GPUs. The upcoming Chinese chips act is likely going to be a huge boon for them.

On top of that, they are cooperating with both China mobile and China telecom to have their GPUs in cloud computing, meta verse and other places. They've also been invited to China mobile's new nationwide AI lab effort. Looks like China mobile is ver invested in them here. In many ways, they are the GPU company in China to follow, since the design both desktop, cloud gaming and cloud GPUs.

paiemon said:

Does this mean they are waiting for systems to be deployed and operational at SMIC/YMTC/Etc before proceeding to mass production. What does this mean for the testing that was taking place at ICRD for the final test units?

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If I had to guess. They are already testing out with ICRD/SMIC/YMTC for a while and they are making adjustment and fixes. However, it probably isn't a good idea to start producing DUVi scanners before they have been verified to work in production settings at a profitable work load. Each customer have their own process and can probably provide SMEE with valuable feedback. Let's just say that if SMIC can put SMEE into their production process by early 2024 (like high volume regular production), then this would be pretty good.

Keep in mind that SSA600 was certified in 2018 and was only reported to be in production this year (so took 4 years). If SSA800 (which was certified last year) can be used in production process by early 2024, then that would be just 2 to 3 years.

In some ways, I think Huawei will have a leg up here if they have their own fab and their own lithography machine. They can just work with each other to fine tune the process. And Huawei likely does not care if the WPH is a little lower, since they have no other avenue to get their chips.

tphuang said:

The slow mass production of DUVi is a little disappointing

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Due the lack of a early positive feedback loop, the development of IC lithography has been lacking in China, everyone took ASML for granted and no one ever thought that the situation would became this bad, there was no way from heaven to hell that any foundry would had ever need a domestic SMEE scanner. Even less that a company like Huawei would ever need an EUV patterning machine. US sanctions took everyone by surprise even if all the warnings were there.

he CETC MEMS sensor industry innovation base project, which took 6 months to build, was officially capped, marking a phased victory in project construction.







The provincial key project MEMS sensor industry innovation base project has a total investment of about 1.752 billion yuan, covers an area of 142 acres, and a total construction area of about 120,000 square meters. R & D and production of inertial MEMS products, MEMS sensor products, RF MEMS products, etc., are widely used in aerospace, new energy vehicles, intelligent driving, smart cities, Internet of Things and 5G communications and other fields.







After the project is completed and put into use, an 8-inch MEMS sensor chip production line and a MEMS sensor packaging and testing and module product production line will be built, becoming a national MEMS innovation highland. The project is expected to have an annual sales income of 3 billion yuan and an annual tax payment of 300 million yuan within five years.

The first SCADA exaction system using Phytium chips and Kylin OS has been put into operation in Shenzhen's 13th subway. Fills a big void in Chinese industries as manufacturers continue to shift toward using more of the domestic chips and OS. Given china's status as the world's factory, it would be interesting to see how quickly these machines and other things can be shifted to using Kylin or Harmony or Euler or UOS.