Chinese semiconductor industry

长江计算 came out with some numbers on domestic computers that it builds.

First Accelor 5000 PoD

First, it published Kunpeng full liquid cooled data center cabinet. With 32 Dual-socket liquid-cooled server nodes, it can generates 2.5 PFlops of calculation using 64 Kunpeng-920 CPU and 128 GPU using 66kW of power -> equivalent to 8 traditional frame. With liquid cooling, this can achieve PUE of under 1.15 and save 20% electricity bill every year. It continues to surprise me that Huawei still has Kunpeng-920 chips to sell at this point.

Secondly, it also came out with a new DC13F V2 desktop computer.
which uses 8 core 2.3CHz D2000 CPU along with 8 GB DDR4 and 256 GB SSD. It reached SpecInt2006 score of 100 (not really sure why measured against something so old)
It can be equipped with Kylin or Android or Window OS. So more of these all Chinese desktop.

Looks like LoongSon CPU has now entered the industrial control market. This is going to be interesting to see. Both Phytium and Hygon have been doing better in winning orders and claim to have full ISA license of control of their IP, but does Chinese gov't favor LoongArch and RISC-V chip designers going forward.

For things like industrial CPU, you don't really need high end CPU. In this case, Hualong Xunda is using 3A5000, but that's probably enough for what it needs.

Industrial control, automotive, and IoT will all be going to RISC-V in the near future I think. These chips are typically highly cost sensitive and it makes no sense to be paying royalties to ARM for them. In the smartphone market binary compatibility of applications is relevant, but not in any of those sectors.

Found from Tomshardware, analysys by

antonius123 said:

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Found from Tomshardware, analysys by

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absolute joke. They don't even analyze the key unit operations in 3D NAND, what equipment is required, and what the alternatives are.

I still really don't understand what useful equipment YMTC are able to buy if they were not on entity list. I do agree that if it cannot find domestic alternatives, then it can't expand, but it doesn't seem like TrendForce actually have even bothered assessing what machines are needed and which ones Chinese tool makers can supply and which ones they can't supply. All of us here are trying to figure that out.

The most egregious part is where they underestimated the Chinese market. Let's say that nobody outside of China buys YMTC SSDs. That would mean YMTC still has access to 50% of world's smartphones and probably PCs and mini-computers and other things. China is a humongous market because it builds all the electronics. On the other hand, if China was to forbid Chinese companies from working with Micron, Micron would be in huge trouble.

I think the US attaches too much importance to themselves. China has several companies working on etch tools. So I doubt YMTC will not be able to expand their production eventually. And once they have dedicated tool makers working just for them it is highly likely they will be able to press their advantage further. From what I get the only big unique requirements 3D NAND has is etch and maybe metrology. And it is not like metrology tools get spent or that you need that many of them in the first place. The lithography tools will just be immersion lithography of the most basic type and even if those got sanctioned SMEE will be producing their own in 2 years time. In the meantime YMTC can continue using their existing production facilities to expand bit density.

antonius123 said:

I am not a chip expert to qualify that article is stupid or not, this article is from credible source Tomshardware , thats why I would be happy to hear opinions from the experts here.
I know each side has their own bias, but hearing and comparing analysis from several analyst will be nice for digestion.

So it would be interesting to hear your opinion regarding what domestic tools and equipment makers that can replace the most advanced from international makers in case of YMTC to ensure they can sustain their position as the most advanced or keep developing advanced nand flash.

Click to expand...

from a pure writing point of view it is a shit article. It asserts a definitive conclusion without evidence.

FairAndUnbiased said:

from a pure writing point of view it is a shit article. It asserts a definitive conclusion without evidence.

Click to expand...

I already suspect so.

But from his writing, I can see his clear argument that the YMTC dependency on several (or maybe just one) tool/equipment from overseas is the achilles heel and the reason why the ban will drag YMTC. I am not saying he must be right.

Thats why I am interested to hear from some expert here how wrong he is, and the comparable alternative from domestic for the tools/equipments.

Btw, this is the information from year 2020:

Applied Materials and Lam Research generated an estimated $6.2 billion in revenues from NAND manufacturers in 2020 and $740 million to YMTC.

Year 2022: YMTC said to have sold semiconductors that incorporated American technology to smartphone maker

Hopefully this year YMTC could be free from dependency on overseas equipment vendor.

antonius123 said:

I already suspect so.

But from his writing, I can see his clear argument that the YMTC dependency on several (or maybe just one) tool/equipment from overseas is the achilles heel and the reason why the ban will drag YMTC. I am not saying he must be right.

Thats why I am interested to hear from some expert here how wrong he is, and the comparable alternative from domestic for the tools/equipments.

Btw, this is the information from year 2020:

Applied Materials and Lam Research generated an estimated $6.2 billion in revenues from NAND manufacturers in 2020 and $740 million to YMTC.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Year 2022: YMTC said to have sold semiconductors that incorporated American technology to smartphone maker

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Hopefully this year YMTC could be free from dependency on overseas equipment vendor.

Click to expand...

Hello bro long time no hear, we share the same sentiment BUT my take on the situation with sound adage from our good friend @superdog, you need tools to practice your craft, even IF you had the best equipment available you can't be an expert overnite. The important thing is that you have the CORE TECH Competency and Capability, the rest are purely semantics.