Chinese semiconductor industry

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tphuang

tphuang

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Biren is among the first companies to join China Mobile's new intelligent computing open lab for AI and such. Biren, Inspur and Alibaba cloud are among the 10 initial partners for this project. The establishment of this lab is to solve the 3 big problems of not having a unified technical standard, needing to improve domestic product and need for developing AI ecosystem. By enrolling Biren and other domestic core computation chain, this allows China Mobile's computing network to use the test demonstration network CFITI to research and validate the development of ecosystem and Technology.

This is the first announcement of Biren testing out with one of its large partners in a long time. It had already released test results with Inspur a while back. For the past few months, they were probably dealing with the fallout of the sanctions along with getting their software/hardware integration ready for AI platforms. I think both China Mobile and Inspur were announced as partners of Biren back in August. It looks like they will now also be able to work with Alibaba Cloud in expanding the usage of their chips. I'm still waiting to hear more for their cooperation with Baidu PaddlePaddle platform and Ping An Group.
 
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tokenanalyst

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gadgetcool5 said:
It boggles the mind how some execs in the Chinese semi community still don't get it.
Click to expand...
tphuang said:
you mean the new expanded entity list?

I seems like this list has basically every Cambricon subsidiary + SMEE + PXW (the Huawei fab) + ICRD. I'm not sure how much this actually affects these players since SMIC was added 2 years ago and has just kept things going. If Cambricon isn't trying to get all of its chips made by SMIC, it really isn't being very smart.

安徽寒武纪信息技术有限公司
中航工业航空复合材料特种结构研究院
AZUP国际集团有限公司
北京海远科技有限公司。
北京机械工业自动化研究所有限公司
北京合众思壮科技有限公司
北京远景战略技术有限公司
寒武纪(香港)有限公司
寒武纪（昆山）信息技术有限公司
寒武纪（南京）信息技术有限公司
寒武纪（西安）集成电路有限公司
寒武纪机行阁（南京）科技有限公司
寒武纪科技股份有限公司
中电科云（北京）科技有限公司。
中国电科大地信息系统集团有限公司
中国电子科技集团公司第二十八研究所
中国科学院计算技术研究所
广东勤智技术研究院有限公司
合肥芯储电子有限公司
信息系统工程重点实验室
南京艾西信息技术有限公司。
南京LES网络安全与信息技术研究院有限公司
南京莱斯电子设备有限公司
南京莱斯信息技术有限公司
PXW半导体制造公司
上海寒武纪信息技术有限公司。
上海集成电路研究开发中心
上海微电子装备（集团）有限公司
上海索维信息技术有限公司。
苏州寒武纪信息技术有限公司。
二十八研究所系统设备有限公司（溧阳）
天津天地伟业科技有限公司。
雄安寒武纪科技有限公司
长江存储科技有限公司
中科信良（北京）科技有限公司
长江存储科技（日本）有限公司
Click to expand...
Were are the Chinese liberals now?
Were are the parrots of dependency?
Is better to rent than built now?
Are the foreign tools much better than local tools now?
Were are the ones who let this American companies to monopolize the domestic market for quick profits?
Were are the gradualists now, the "will take decades" guys now?


Either way, I think SMEE, the ICRD "is a shame because a lot of US tool makers benefited from the research collaboration with this institute" and CETC are pretty independent, Cambrian will have to make their chips with SMIC, the goal of PXW is to make a domestic fab with domestic tools.

Also I think FDPR to zero will be absolutely difficult for the US to enforce in realty, this already is overwhelming US export agencies. It will have to be let to US companies to get end user certificates for their products for every single product they sell all over the world. Well, is going to be a gigantic burden for US companies. Anyone would rather stop buying US products than to be subject to the sluggishness that is the US export control bureaucracy even if cost more.
 
tphuang

tphuang

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Kunlun has also announced that it is one of the initial 10 firms that joined the China Mobile project.
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And same with Moore Threads
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And Huawei
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And Vastai technology (瀚博半导体) aka Hanbo semiconductor
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so we got at minimum:
Biren, Inspur, Alibaba Cloud, Huawei, Kunlunxin, Moore Threads and Vastai Tech.
just 3 missing in there.

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A little more on this news
在本次论坛上，中国移动与合作伙伴共建协同创新基地算力网络新型智算开放实验室和DPU创新开放实验室，发布了《新一代智算中心网络技术白皮书》，进一步推动了新型智算中心技术体系完善，加快构建解耦开放的DPU生态。中国移动将依托算力网络子链, 携手产业合作伙伴共同推动实验室的建设，加快算力网络技术和产业的成熟
Click to expand...

Looks like this is a nation wide effort to join all the major domestic Technologies firms in this space to develop a fully domestic AI ecosystem.
 
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european_guy

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tokenanalyst said:
Were are the Chinese liberals now?
Were are the parrots of dependency?
Is better to rent than built now?
Click to expand...

All of this was well expected. No problem.

There will be more in the future, but it is just the way it goes....some temporary issue, but forcing China to use local equipment will speed up localization and reduce future liabilities.

Image if the current many fabs under construction would be filled with US equipment....it would be a huge liability 2/3 years down the road. Better to arrive maybe some time later, but with safe and stable supply chain.

US is doing what it can to slow down China. All of this just shows for how long China companies relied and took advantage (in a good sense) of US technology. Now the very clear message is that China should go alone, or at least without US supply chain. What US is doing now, it could have done 10 years ago and it would had made sense form a geopolitical zero-sum-game, confrontation point of view....and it would have been much worse!

US is very late at the party, they have just themselves to blame. I'm fully confident China will overcome this....even US knows it.


tphuang said:
Looks like this is a nation wide effort to join all the major domestic Technologies firms in this space to develop a fully domestic AI ecosystem.
Click to expand...

Yes. Very good!
 
Last edited:
horse

horse

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tokenanalyst said:
Were are the Chinese liberals now?
Were are the parrots of dependency?
Is better to rent than built now?
Are the foreign tools much better than local tools now?
Were are the ones who let this American companies to monopolize the domestic market for quick profits?
Were are the gradualists now, the "will take decades" guys now?
Click to expand...

One thing about a business, is that you do not reinvent the wheel.

If you can buy it, just buy it.

The person who wants to reinvent the wheel, will be fired 100% of the time.

That is a cardinal rule about the world, and economics.

Capital is scarce.

No one should throwing capital at reinventing the wheel.

At this point, this is what someone should say, and that is this is a case of market failure, and the government should step in!

And that is what did happen. The PRC and CPC, distrustful of the Americans every since the Obama chip bans related to supercomputers, kept all those research projects and secondary companies alive. Just in case of eventualities we are witnessing today.

So now, just crank it up. Big timez!

To me, there is nothing to fret about in the past. Everyone did their job in China. Everyone did, what they were supposed to have done.

Besides, buying all that advanced tech from the Americans, allowed technicians inside China to build up their know-how on advanced equipment. If they were forced to used poor equipment, really doubtful that their know-how would be greater from learning on poor equipment than compared to learning on the best equipment.

:)
 
A

ansy1968

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tphuang said:
you mean the new expanded entity list?

I seems like this list has basically every Cambricon subsidiary + SMEE + PXW (the Huawei fab) + ICRD. I'm not sure how much this actually affects these players since SMIC was added 2 years ago and has just kept things going. If Cambricon isn't trying to get all of its chips made by SMIC, it really isn't being very smart.

安徽寒武纪信息技术有限公司
中航工业航空复合材料特种结构研究院
AZUP国际集团有限公司
北京海远科技有限公司。
北京机械工业自动化研究所有限公司
北京合众思壮科技有限公司
北京远景战略技术有限公司
寒武纪(香港)有限公司
寒武纪（昆山）信息技术有限公司
寒武纪（南京）信息技术有限公司
寒武纪（西安）集成电路有限公司
寒武纪机行阁（南京）科技有限公司
寒武纪科技股份有限公司
中电科云（北京）科技有限公司。
中国电科大地信息系统集团有限公司
中国电子科技集团公司第二十八研究所
中国科学院计算技术研究所
广东勤智技术研究院有限公司
合肥芯储电子有限公司
信息系统工程重点实验室
南京艾西信息技术有限公司。
南京LES网络安全与信息技术研究院有限公司
南京莱斯电子设备有限公司
南京莱斯信息技术有限公司
PXW半导体制造公司
上海寒武纪信息技术有限公司。
上海集成电路研究开发中心
上海微电子装备（集团）有限公司
上海索维信息技术有限公司。
苏州寒武纪信息技术有限公司。
二十八研究所系统设备有限公司（溧阳）
天津天地伟业科技有限公司。
雄安寒武纪科技有限公司
长江存储科技有限公司
中科信良（北京）科技有限公司
长江存储科技（日本）有限公司
Click to expand...
Sir from somebody whom I trust and a mentor had just gave me a juicy tidbits, I haven't receive his approval yet BUT i'm sure he will not begrudge me this one.;)

SMIC had reportedly sold all their stakes in SN1 to the government so the latter can support Huawei. One of my source say it’s just an idea floating around at high level discussion in SMIC. A second source confirmed this and asked me to keep hush. And a third said the deal is actually “completed”. All three stories have big overlap that SMIC is or had considered selling SN1 to the government. As the delta…you can decide if you think SMIC is still considering this idea or if they had already done so in secret.

Another one from my mentor @Oldschool supporting the claimed of Huawei involvement, all of this fits what we know of the Return of the King in 2023.

Oldschool​

Junior Member​

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Yesterday at 10:42 PM
did you read this already?

www.electronicsweekly.com

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Having spent $200 billion to develop a chip industry with little to show for it, China is now embarking on a $56 billion, Huawei-led move to revive its
www.electronicsweekly.com
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​

​

Huawei leading China chip dream revival​


Having spent $200 billion to develop a chip industry with little to show for it, China is now embarking on a $56 billion, Huawei-led move to revive its dream of advanced chip-making.

Construction at the shuttered DRAM fab Fujian Jinhua Integrated Circuit Co. (JHICC) has resumed, reports the Nikkei. JHICC had to shut when US sanctions on the supply of US equipment were imposed.
china-flag.jpeg

Across the way from JHICC, packaging specialist Quliang Electronics is building a second site the size of 20 soccer fields.
In Shenzhen, a fab is being built for PengXinWei Integrated Circuit Manufacturing Co.






The similarly naned PengXinXu Technology Co plans to build a fab in Shenzhen.
Also building a fab in Shenzhen is the 2022 DRAM startup SwaySure Technology.
All three companies – PengXinWei, PengXinXu and SwaySure – are owned by the Shenzhen government.
SMIC, the Beijing and Shanghai foundry, has built production lines free of American chipmaking equipment which it calls “Non-A lines.”
SMIC’s best process on a Non A-line is the 2008-vintage 40nm process. The company’s current target is to set up, in the next two years, a 28nm line which does not use US manufacturing equipment.
All of this is good news for China’s top five equipment manufacturing companies – Naura, AMEC, ACM Research, Hwating and Piotech – whose combined revenues jumped 121% from 2019 to 2021 reaching $2.3 billion last year.
Having a tough commercial organisation heading up its chip effort should produce very much better results for China than the loose, diffuse collection of municipal governments, incompetently managed federal funds and outright rogues who dissipated the $200 billion of previous support funding.
However Huawei still has to crack the very tough nut of developing advanced chip-making equipment. Estimates suggest this could take a couple of decades.
 
tphuang

tphuang

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Moore Threads has completed product compatibility mutual certification with their S10 series GPU and Baixin (100Trust) 225BC and 230F-A product
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From what I can see, 225BC and 230F-A just use domestic CPU and domestic software. Although, you can actually select the CPU you want to use. In this example, the product is certified with Phytium CPU and Kylin OS. This is what an all Chinese desktop computer looks like. I'd imagine this is the kind of computers being sold to SOEs that require domestic computers. They use S10, because GPU requirement would be quite low for a work computer.
 
A

antiterror13

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tphuang said:
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Moore Threads has completed product compatibility mutual certification with their S10 series GPU and Baixin (100Trust) 225BC and 230F-A product
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
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From what I can see, 225BC and 230F-A just use domestic CPU and domestic software. Although, you can actually select the CPU you want to use. In this example, the product is certified with Phytium CPU and Kylin OS. This is what an all Chinese desktop computer looks like. I'd imagine this is the kind of computers being sold to SOEs that require domestic computers. They use S10, because GPU requirement would be quite low for a work computer.
Click to expand...

the GPU requirement for general office workers is not high, as long as can handle 10-20 online meeting (i.e Teams or Zoom) would be good enough .. which shouldn't be a problem
 
FairAndUnbiased

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
ansy1968 said:
Sir from somebody whom I trust and a mentor had just gave me a juicy tidbits, I haven't receive his approval yet BUT i'm sure he will not begrudge me this one.;)

SMIC had reportedly sold all their stakes in SN1 to the government so the latter can support Huawei. One of my source say it’s just an idea floating around at high level discussion in SMIC. A second source confirmed this and asked me to keep hush. And a third said the deal is actually “completed”. All three stories have big overlap that SMIC is or had considered selling SN1 to the government. As the delta…you can decide if you think SMIC is still considering this idea or if they had already done so in secret.

Another one from my mentor @Oldschool supporting the claimed of Huawei involvement, all of this fits what we know of the Return of the King in 2023.

Oldschool​

Junior Member​

Registered Member
Yesterday at 10:42 PM
did you read this already?

www.electronicsweekly.com

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Having spent $200 billion to develop a chip industry with little to show for it, China is now embarking on a $56 billion, Huawei-led move to revive its
www.electronicsweekly.com
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

​

​

Huawei leading China chip dream revival​


Having spent $200 billion to develop a chip industry with little to show for it, China is now embarking on a $56 billion, Huawei-led move to revive its dream of advanced chip-making.

Construction at the shuttered DRAM fab Fujian Jinhua Integrated Circuit Co. (JHICC) has resumed, reports the Nikkei. JHICC had to shut when US sanctions on the supply of US equipment were imposed.
china-flag.jpeg

Across the way from JHICC, packaging specialist Quliang Electronics is building a second site the size of 20 soccer fields.
In Shenzhen, a fab is being built for PengXinWei Integrated Circuit Manufacturing Co.






The similarly naned PengXinXu Technology Co plans to build a fab in Shenzhen.
Also building a fab in Shenzhen is the 2022 DRAM startup SwaySure Technology.
All three companies – PengXinWei, PengXinXu and SwaySure – are owned by the Shenzhen government.
SMIC, the Beijing and Shanghai foundry, has built production lines free of American chipmaking equipment which it calls “Non-A lines.”
SMIC’s best process on a Non A-line is the 2008-vintage 40nm process. The company’s current target is to set up, in the next two years, a 28nm line which does not use US manufacturing equipment.
All of this is good news for China’s top five equipment manufacturing companies – Naura, AMEC, ACM Research, Hwating and Piotech – whose combined revenues jumped 121% from 2019 to 2021 reaching $2.3 billion last year.
Having a tough commercial organisation heading up its chip effort should produce very much better results for China than the loose, diffuse collection of municipal governments, incompetently managed federal funds and outright rogues who dissipated the $200 billion of previous support funding.
However Huawei still has to crack the very tough nut of developing advanced chip-making equipment. Estimates suggest this could take a couple of decades.
Click to expand...
They factually got revenue wrong and vastly overestimate the difficulty of equipment... That already exists.

The previous round of semiconductor funding also yielded YMTC, CXMT, new SMIC fabs, and ICRD. Not a waste.
 
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