Chinese semiconductor industry

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tphuang

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Apart from Tokyo Electron, I have seen that Hitachi has been winning orders on the inspection tools side and ASM pacific.
If thats the case, then I presume the increased import value is mostly coming from asml. Will be interesting when their q4 earnings come out. I am anticipating more china deliveries.

Just to add that, I think china probably would import more than they have been except for the fact that asml delivery slots have been taken up. Other fabs cutting back on capex is great news from Chinese fabs. Especially smic.
 

Fatty

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Can someone explain to me if the chip ban will affect the PLA?

From what I understand, the difficulty of chip making isn’t making the chip but making it efficiently enough to sell profitably to the average consumer.
Then, is it likely that the PLA has some facilities making small numbers of advanced chips for their own use (and other advanced research use)?
 

FairAndUnbiased

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Can someone explain to me if the chip ban will affect the PLA?

From what I understand, the difficulty of chip making isn’t making the chip but making it efficiently enough to sell profitably to the average consumer.
Then, is it likely that the PLA has some facilities making small numbers of advanced chips for their own use (and other advanced research use)?
Guaranteed. For instance, Ra.y.the.on chip fabs aren't listed, but they have lots of facilities that look suspiciously like chip fabs, also working on older nodes like 150 mm wafer, 180 nm process.
 

sunnymaxi

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Guaranteed. For instance, Ra.y.the.on chip fabs aren't listed, but they have lots of facilities that look suspiciously like chip fabs, also working on older nodes like 150 mm wafer, 180 nm process.
PLA have own autonomous fab but as you know all heavy basic industries still uses older nodes like 90nm/44nm so defense industry is no exception. except some latest Ai related weapons.

tanks , warships , helicopters , fighter jets all uses older nodes.
 

tokenanalyst

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Can someone explain to me if the chip ban will affect the PLA?

From what I understand, the difficulty of chip making isn’t making the chip but making it efficiently enough to sell profitably to the average consumer.
Then, is it likely that the PLA has some facilities making small numbers of advanced chips for their own use (and other advanced research use)?
I Think they have been pattering chips 250nm to 45nm using low volume immersion and EUV lithography, apart from using lithography machines from CETC and SMEE for quite some time for their weapon and space programs. CETC alone can produce enough processing tools to solve the most of the chips needs of the PLA and China space programs.
So this is more commercial warfare, an attack on legitime businesses than an effort to stop the PLA from getting chips. Who can make their own or buy them in the open market.
 

latenlazy

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Yeah, the entire idea that Chinese companies will adjust their strategies by doing 17nm node just so that they can buy AMAT tools is kind of ridiculous. And when he is talking about Chinese customers, he is just referring to SMIC here. No one else is really producing 14nm nodes right now.

Think Huahong should be.
 

FairAndUnbiased

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When reading stuff like this, makes me wonder the likelihood of graphene chips in the future. I know this has been discussed in this thread in the past, but still seems quite remote.
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graphene is thin but the Z dimension isn't the limiting factor for electronics as your interconnects take up far more vertical space than the transistors themselves. Otherwise, graphene has a bandgap of 0 and is more like a semimetal than a semiconductor. it is likely to be more useful for chemical or mechanical properties than for electronic.
 

AssassinsMace

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You underestimate the resourcefulness of those in the semiconductor industry and the US government's ability to obtain information. We are paid to know information before the media.

Do you really think the USG found out about PXW from the media?
Then how do explain how the US first just banned chips from being sold to China? They thought that was enough. Then reports came out from the non-Western media that China was on it's way to domestic production and only until then the US started banning equipment to make chips. If the US knows everything before the media then they should've banned the tools to make chips from the first place.
 

antiterror13

Brigadier
Even if it is proven to work just as well and at similar operational cost as the ASML EUV lithography machines, the United States will do its utmost to prevent sales to Chinese companies. Given that ASML already has a monopoly on sales of TSMC and the Koreans - the only commercial users of EUV machines - it will be difficult for the Canon to have them as customers. If Japanese companies are not prepared to go into domestic chip making on a large scale in the near to medium term future at least for their significant domestic market, there will ikely be no market for Canon's Nanoimprint Machines if they are not willing to sell them to China.

Well, when it is operational, China will have the EUV machine in production already. This bans will only last a few years, and will fall apart when China has EUV machine. Similar to CNC machine, supercomputer, etc, etc
 
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