Chinese semiconductor industry

Hendrik_2000 said:

All those hype about America lord over their allies is just pipe dream and hubris amplify by western press megaphone I am not quite sure that is the cade. Case in point Huawei America demand Japan and korea to shut downs Huawei but both of them refuse.

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If the alliance system argument, is to be taken to the extremes, such as TMSC, ASLM, Samsung, etc., are all essentially American companies, because where they are located that those countries they will do what the Americans ask.

That is almost like saying China will do what America asks because Apple builds it iCrap in Guangzhou!

I am just ranting again!

Cowboys and Indians!

Not the preferable geopolitical strategy if you ask me.

Yet, we are told straight up, that China is stupid to go compete against the cowboys and Indians strategy.

What if the evidence does not support that?

That is where Trump, Pompeo, Navarro, et al, starts going deep into la-la land. Then the double down happens. Double down baby and hit me!

Bust!

The alliance system. Cowboys and Indians.

Comic book strategies do not work.

gadgetcool5 said:

That's not what I said. I said I try to bring the other side's (Chinese) perspective to American forums. It has nothing to do with the situation on semiconductors however. Stop bringing off topic stuff here.

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Yeah that is what you said and that is trolling. Your presence is off topic here.

gadgetcool5 said:

The reality on semiconductors is that China is nowhere near in the game. You cannot compare America to China because TSMC and ASML are also American for all intents and purposes. They will listen to whatever America says which amounts to exactly the same thing as if they were based in Michigan. That's what happens when you get allies: Other countries' capabilities become yours. China doesn't understand this concept and can only compare country to country but it is facing an ALLIANCE. The Western alliance includes the US, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Australia, India, and all of Europe. Together this group has more technology, bigger economy, bigger population, more land, and more powerful military -- and of course, far, far, far more advanced semiconductor industries, than China. And it's not even close. This is the reward you get by seeking good relations with other countries, instead of picking fights.

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No, there is nothing that China doesn't understand that you do. America blackmailed them and told them it would cut off their supply chains in order to get them to stop supplying China. Nobody stops business with the largest market in the world voluntarily.

That block is more powerful than China alone now, but even combined their growth pales in comparison. It is China's future that they fear and that is why the only way forward is for China to innovate, which it can; there are no partnerships.

gadgetcool5 said:

And the person who said China is winning the trade and tech war is ridiculous. Since the tech war started, China's best companies (Huawei and ZTE) have been nearly destroyed whereas Apple, Google, Microsoft, etc. have doubled their market value. Like, it's not even close.

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No one is more ridiculous than you. Huawei and ZTE just posted growth under sanction that American companies couldn't get while cheating. Number 1 in 5G, still Huawei. So if that's called destroyed, then America's economy, which is in actual recession, must have been killed and reincarnated so many times over it looks like its actively shapeshifting! It's not even close.

Apple? What's Apple? A greedy cellphone company that just assembles parts they buy all over the world? LOL It has less ambition than Huawei's toenail. Market value is what you care about? LOL Nio's stock went up 3,000% in a year. China's ahead again. Nio can double in its sleep; it's not even close LOL

gadgetcool5 said:

I do NOT say this because I am happy about it. On the contrary I wish China were a lot more powerful. But the truth is, it's not, so I don't see why a weaker party will want to pick a fight with a stronger party that it is sure to lose.

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You won't be happy about this; you won't be happy when China overtakes the US either. Your life is not meant for happiness; as I said, it is masochistic. The stronger party was desperate, seeing it could not compete with the growth of the weaker party, so it started campaign to stop the weaker party's growth. But since the start of the campaign, the weaker party has grown even faster both economically and technologically, in comparison. At this rate, the stronger party of yesterday is sure to become the weaker party of tomorrow because stopping someone else's progress is a fight it is always sure to lose.

gadgetcool5 said:

If I was a CIA agent who wanted to undermine China, I would do exactly what Xi Jinping has done.

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That's why they didn't hire you as a CIA agent to shoot the US in the foot. However, they missed protecting the presidency from idiocy.

I really dislike Chinese doves. I have noticed two doves in the past several months (fools) on this forum with the names of gadgetcool and joshua luo who are coming to preach a surrender doctrine instead of sharing their thoughts with us how we can improve on our strategic and technical weaknesses without preaching surrender. I would have shoot you if you where serving under me, gadgetcool, Mao-style. I will not be carefull with my words.

More details on the recent riots at the Apple Indian plant.
20,000 finished iPhones were stolen.
The Apple Indians are celebrating Christmas early by giving themselves an iPhone.

For English narration, enable Youtube English caption.

So it isn't Winstron who cut the salaries of the workers to almost half but the company they subcontract from. Subcontract from to do what? To insulate Winstron from slave wage contracts like these. I bet Winstron "pays" them the same but then gets kickbacks in return when the subcontractor cuts workers wages. India shouldn't allow these workers to be subcontracted this is pure shilling.

gelgoog said:

So it isn't Winstron who cut the salaries of the workers to almost half but the company they subcontract from. Subcontract from to do what? To insulate Winstron from slave wage contracts like these. I bet Winstron "pays" them the same but then gets kickbacks in return when the subcontractor cuts workers wages. India shouldn't allow these workers to be subcontracted this is pure shilling.

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Probably not,Winstron does not do it out of malice but because necessity. Since they don't have the company set up(HR, accounting dept, legal, etc) to hire thousand of new worker within short time . So they contracted the hiring to some kind of agencies to do the hiring and to do all the accompanying paper work. It is common even in western countries These days they don't hire permanent worker but contract worker to reduce benefit cost and paper work. In some developing countries there are convulating regulation if you want to fire worker and severance pay can be very steep.

So the fault is with the subcontractor that do the hiring It is corruption, stealing, plain and straight

That is the problem when you operate company in developing world where the legal justice and moral is weak and corruption rampant.Low salary is not the best guide to invest. LIke they say buyer beware

Appix said:

I really dislike Chinese doves. I have noticed two doves in the past several months (fools) on this forum with the names of gadgetcool and joshua luo who are coming to preach a surrender doctrine instead of sharing their thoughts with us how we can improve on our strategic and technical weaknesses without preaching surrender. I would have shoot you if you where serving under me, gadgetcool, Mao-style. I will not be carefull with my words.

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I don't mind Chinese doves. But to clarify on these individuals 1) they are not doves, 2) they are not Chinese. I can also call myself Mohit Kumar Sikander all I want on indian defense forums and that does not make me any more Indian.

Hendrik_2000 said:

Probably not,Winstron does not do it out of malice but because necessity. Since they don't have the company set up(HR, accounting dept, legal, etc) to hire thousand of new worker within short time . So they contracted the hiring to some kind of agencies to do the hiring and to do all the accompanying paper work. It is common even in western countries These days they don't hire permanent worker but contract worker to reduce benefit cost and paper work. In some developing countries there are convulating regulation if you want to fire worker and severance pay can be very steep.

So the fault is with the subcontractor that do the hiring It is corruption, stealing, plain and straight

That is the problem when you operate company in developing world where the legal justice and moral is weak and corruption rampant.Low salary is not the best guide to invest. LIke they say buyer beware

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That's the thing though. Subcontracting is in reality done to scam workers of their rights.

gelgoog said:

That's the thing though. Subcontracting is in reality done to scam workers of their rights.

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That is not necessarily true Some country enacted labor law way out of line with common sense and international practice because of weak social service resulting in dearth of investment. Because nobody want to pay for inefficient and unproductive worker. Take example of Indonesia that forced employer to give 50 months severance pay for lay off worker Now which stupid company want to do that? The government want to change to 30 months and they going berserk and burn the tire.

Some country just enact law without thinking just to buy the popularity vote. In order to attract investment you have to have flexible labor law like they say Beggar cannot be choosy


KSPI President Said Iqbal released a statement saying the new law will hurt workers, including by reducing severance pay, removing restrictions on manual labor by foreign workers, increasing the use of outsourcing, and converting monthly wages into hourly wages.

“We reject the entire contents of the omnibus law which is very detrimental to workers,” Mr. Iqbal said. “It must be canceled immediately. The workers are already suffering a lot from the COVID-19 crisis.”

Some academics from prominent universities also expressed disappointment on Wednesday over a law they said was problematic and would likely lead to a judicial review.

Susi Dwi Harijanti of Bandung’s Padjajaran University said the law’s swift passage “shocked everybody” because parliament was usually “slow in making regulations, including the ones that are clearly needed by the people,” according to Reuters.

Indonesia, Southeast Asia’s largest economy, is eagerly courting foreign investors as key drivers of economic growth in a nation where nearly half the population is younger than 30.

Top economic minister Airlangga Hartarto on Wednesday sought to calm protesters and said many of their fears were based on false information, according to Reuters.

“I can assure you wages will not be cut,” he told a virtual news conference.

The Jakarta Post reports that the "government and lawmakers have also agreed to lower maximum severance pay for laid off workers and introduce a new unemployment fund (JKP), which effectively means . According to the law, employers could pay a maximum of 19 times the monthly salary, and an additional six times the monthly salary will be paid by the government through the JKP scheme."