US to TSMC: No forced technology transfer here! At all!
Chinese semiconductor industry
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US to TSMC: No forced technology transfer here! At all!
Are you serious? The US does not take care of its allies, if such care does not benefit it... do you see the US give two sh*ts about the situation Australia is in, aside from some lip service, there are no actual or tangible help at all... in fact the US itself is trying to fill the gap left by Australia in the Chinese market...
Again, please first explain why the only companies affected by the so called semiconductor ban are Huawei, ZTE and SMIC... every other company still have their contracts and supplies in place... the US has never wanted to destroy the industry... they just want to have control and benefit from the upstream of production/assembly...
Frankly, if the benefits are enough, who knows what the Japanese might choose to do... if they go with the benefits model with China instead, they can still remain and be a regional power... but if they go with the US ally model they might not survive the beginning of the next hot war...
Even if the semiconductor production in China is in shambles... the US companies will be dying to supply other Chinese companies... other related industries will not be affected in the slightest as US benefits from the growth of these industries...
As for tech transfer... the only real tech left that China wants are core techs in industries that the Western powers can’t afford to give up, it takes two to Tango... if there is money to be made from tech transfer then you can bet your ass, the companies from around the world will still do it... and companies are still doing whatever they can get into the Chinese market and sell their goods... especially when these executives have to endure quarantine and waste time but they still do it for expos to display their goods in China... actions speaks louder then rhetoric...
We shall see how America will contend with the legacy of Trump, the president that enforced to the entire world the realisation and the reality that in no uncertain terms that US can’t be trusted, as a supplier, as a partner or as an ally...
manqiangrexue
Brigadier
He is admittedly just here to troll. He says he trolls American forums to tell them that China will dominate them and then he says he trolls this forum to tell Chinese people that China will fail. He says he thinks that will bring peace by making both sides hate the other more for some reason. He has no actual view or opinion; it's just the opposite of what he's reading. Since that makes little to no sense, I think he's just a masochist and enjoys the verbal beatdown he gets everywhere.
We don't have allies, we have countries that needs us more than we need them. That's how shit works. If ever the day comes that our interests are not well aligned or these allies think they can hitch a ride with someone else, we would be quickly shown the door with a bankers box. That's why part of the job of being a mob boss is keeping the capos down by occasionally undermining them, but somehow time these interventions so that your family is still remains dominant compared to others.
"China, which has long forced foreign firms to transfer technology as the price of entry into its domestic market, now faces the prospect that foreign firms will pass on the Chinese market in order to maintain access to the United States—and consequently keep their technologies to themselves."
Cause, yknow, US NEVER forces tech transfers
Why would they want the US market when its growth is hampered by COVID while China the largest consumer market, and growing prodigiously? Pass the Chinese? Where are these chips going to become a part of a consumer electronic?
Since this is a Chinese forum, your points will be address. If this forum was not a Chinese forum, no one would bother.
Your post has two components, the first one ideological, the second one engineering the nuts and bolts.
The ideology can be summed up in this post.
Chinese Economics Thread
China does have slums. They are called 城中村. You don't see a lot of them because the Chinese government is good at settling the occupants at subsidized housing This is true. But it is all relative. You can not possibly compare the "Chinese slums" to those of India, Africa and Brazil. It is...
www.sinodefenceforum.com
It is the western alliance system versus the Chinese world view. We will see who becomes stronger over the next decade or two. Right now, China has the upper hand judging by the trade war and tech war.
Also we should note, that China's world view, saw China be the superpower of the world for 20 of the last 22 centuries of world history.
The engineering can be summed up in most of this thread.
In terms of chip fabrication, the mainland Chinese are behind TSMC, but the Chinese are not behind the Americans.
Which factory in America can make a better chip than SMIC at the current moment? None is my impression.
Skywatcher
Captain
Huh, you mean, are the parts, components and software for Chinese semiconductor equipment sourced mostly from China?
That's not what I said. I said I try to bring the other side's (Chinese) perspective to American forums. It has nothing to do with the situation on semiconductors however. Stop bringing off topic stuff here.
The reality on semiconductors is that China is nowhere near in the game. You cannot compare America to China because TSMC and ASML are also American for all intents and purposes. They will listen to whatever America says which amounts to exactly the same thing as if they were based in Michigan. That's what happens when you get allies: Other countries' capabilities become yours. China doesn't understand this concept and can only compare country to country but it is facing an ALLIANCE. The Western alliance includes the US, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Australia, India, and all of Europe. Together this group has more technology, bigger economy, bigger population, more land, and more powerful military -- and of course, far, far, far more advanced semiconductor industries, than China. And it's not even close. This is the reward you get by seeking good relations with other countries, instead of picking fights.
And the person who said China is winning the trade and tech war is ridiculous. Since the tech war started, China's best companies (Huawei and ZTE) have been nearly destroyed whereas Apple, Google, Microsoft, etc. have doubled their market value. Like, it's not even close.
I do NOT say this because I am happy about it. On the contrary I wish China were a lot more powerful. But the truth is, it's not, so I don't see why a weaker party will want to pick a fight with a stronger party that it is sure to lose. If I was a CIA agent who wanted to undermine China, I would do exactly what Xi Jinping has done.
Illusions of grandeur.
That sums it up. It is not productive or healthy to believe what the Liberal media wants people to believe.
Incidentally, when it comes to modes of production of actual physical goods, what exactly are those American companies like Apple, Google, Microsoft doing?
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Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
Actually there is no friend between countries but interest. Now with covid enter into 2 resurgence all the western countries economies are all shutter. Japan and Korean economies are built for export where are they going to export their product? All those hype about America lord over their allies is just pipe dream and hubris amplify by western press megaphone I am not quite sure that is the cade. Case in point Huawei America demand Japan and korea to shut downs Huawei but both of them refuse.
Evaluating companies by their share value is ridiculous all those companies share went up because of easy money perpetrated by central bank with main street close the only way to invest is in stock market that is why they went up. But Huawei is doing well in the last quarter their revenue went up by a quarter. And so do ZTE
Huawei revenue up by almost one quarter for third quarter
Bans are yet to hit the Chinese giant's bottom line.
Huawei announced on Tuesday its revenue hit 611 billion yuan, approximately $86 billion, for the third quarter, a jump of 24.4% over the same period last year.
In a statement short on numbers, the company also said its net profit margin for the period was 8.7%.
The company added its smartphone business had shipped 185 million units over the three quarters for the year to date, an increase of 26% year on year.
On 5G, the company said it had signed 60 commercial contracts and shipped over 400,000 5G Massive MIMO antennas.
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ZTE posts 15.4% revenue increase year to date
30 October 2020 | Melanie Mingas
Chinese equipment manufacturer ZTE Corporation has posted its latest financial results confirming a 15.4% increase in revenues in the first three quarters, reaching RMB 74.13 billion (US$11 billion).
In Q3, ZTE’s operating revenue reached RMB 26.93 billion ($4 billion), representing a year-on-year increase of 37.2%. Net profit attributable to shareholders amounted to RMB 0.85 billion, and net profit after extraordinary items attributable to holders of ordinary shares of the listed company amounted to RMB 0.54 billion.
The news came despite sales bans in several markets, , where both ZTE and Huawei are now unable to sell 5G equipment to the country’s telcos. Similar moves are .
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