Chinese semiconductor industry

Appix said:

I mainly post negative articles because that is what China needs to confront. I have no use of spreading things that are going okay or good. The Chinese challenge these days are demographics and a hostile hegemonic empire (related to the current semiconductor supply chain embargo). I have no malign agenda with my activity. Let that be clear.

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Can you stop posting the same 3 - 4 articles over and over and over again?

tphuang said:

Why do people on this forum feel humiliated for China so easily? If these private companies want things to proceed as normal, then they can work with US officials. If not, they can added to entity list. It really depends on how companies like NAURA, YMTC and CXMT view their current indigenization effort. If they are confident, then they can say f u to US inspection and be put on entity list. If they are not confident or don't want to be put on entity list, then they can allowing inspection.

It's just business.

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How will American feel if Chinese regulators wants to inspect American business on US soil for compliances of Chinese laws?

tokenanalyst said:

The problem to reach 28nm was not the laser or even optics, I think 0.8NA with immersion can be used to reach 28nm.
I think the problem was performance issues with the wafer stage, that I think there were solved at the end 2021.

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A 0.8NA + immersion will not be enough to support 28nm. You'd need double patterning with this low NA optics.

tokenanalyst said:

They having working in this lens system since the delivery of their 0.75NA system.
I read it in a 2021 patent that they may reached 0.83NA but can't find it now.

View attachment 99015

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I think the 0.82 NA lens must be for the SSB800 KrF scanner.

But if your interpretation of 0.82NA+immersion for the immersion scanner is correct, the effective NA would be 1.16. At this effective NA, this immersion system would not be able to support 28nm production; well not without needing to adopt double patterning.

Personally, I'm not as worried about the laser. With the slower UPrecision stage, a 40W 4Khz laser is enough. I think the readiness of 1.35 NA Optics would be a bigger concern.

theorlonator said:

Why is that? I thought Chinese equipment suppliers ex lithography have those capabilities. They say AMEC/Naura are basically high end suppliers.

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Yeah, but they can make enough of it to be delivered on time? US manufacturers have enough capacity to serve the entire world less alone China. The best approach in my humble opinion is what Huawei is doing, building medium size "US-less" fabs, learn from the experience and then when the capacity is there "scale exactly".

theorlonator said:

So can China make fabs that use 100% domestic tooling or fabs that have no American content at the very least? No Applied Materials, LAM Research, KLA, etc. A good attack for China is to deprive those companies of revenue and furiously expand 14nm+ chips with purely domestic equipment. Those supercomputing centers don't need <= 7nm chips right?

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Huawei is doing it with CPC's investment, future SMIC's new fabs will be 100% domestic equipment.

I just ask this stuff because these new rules worry me a lot.

tokenanalyst said:

Yeah, but they can make enough of it to be delivered on time? US manufacturers have enough capacity to serve the entire world less alone China. The best approach in my humble opinion is what Huawei is doing, building medium size "US-less" fabs, learn from the experience and then when the capacity is there "scale exactly".

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So I guess it's a matter of investment for them to scale up and/or fix up any remaining patches.

some of the leaders in China's copper clad laminate industry

theorlonator said:

I just ask this stuff because these new rules worry me a lot.

So I guess it's a matter of investment for them to scale up and/or fix up any remaining patches.

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Just as I wrote. even if you are ready, keep opaque until you got the scale, including readiness for an alternative payment system if necessary.

University of Science and Technology of China has made important progress in the preparation of high-performance diamond quantum devices

vincent said:

How will American feel if Chinese regulators wants to inspect American business on US soil for compliances of Chinese laws?

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The good old extraterritoriality and long arm jurisdiction.