Chinese semiconductor industry

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european_guy

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"The U.S. further said on Friday that 28 entities already blacklisted will be subject to enhanced export controls under the Foreign Direct Product Rule, to restrict their ability to source from foreign suppliers using any American technologies."

Which are the 28 entities? For the record SMIC is already blacklisted.

Here below are the 28 entities (page 22 of the
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The 28 revised entities are:

Beijing Institute of Technology;
Beijing Sensetime Technology Development Co., Ltd.;
Changsha Jingjia Microelectronics Co., Ltd.;
Chengdu Haiguang Integrated Circuit;
Chengdu Haiguang Microelectronics Technology;
China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation (CASC) 9th Academy 772
Research Institute
Dahua Technology
Harbin institute of technology;
Higon;
IFLYTEK;
Intellifusion;
Megvii Technology;
National Supercomputer Center Zhengzhou;
National Supercomputing Center Changsha (NSCC-CS);
National Supercomputing Center Guangzhou (NSCC-GZ);
National Supercomputing Center Jinan;
National Supercomputing Center Shenzhen;
National Supercomputing Center Tianjin (NSCC-TJ);
National Supercomputing Center Wuxi (NSCC-WX);
National University of Defense Technology;
New H3C Semiconductor Technologies Co., Ltd.;
Northwestern Polytechnical University;
Shanghai High-Performance Integrated Circuit Design Center;
Sugon;
Sunway Microelectronics;
Tianjin Phytium Information Technology;
Wuxi Jiangnan Institute of Computing Technology; and
Yitu Technologies
 

ansy1968

Brigadier
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More importantly, the N+2/N+2 improved process will apparently pack 127 billion and 146 billion transistors per mm^2. From what we can see in this chart, they should be ready to mass produce it next year with Kirin 9100. SMIC calls it N+2/7nm, but the density is equivalent to Samsung's 4nm process that was only achieved a year ago. And the N+2 improved process is equivalent to TMSC N5 process in density that was achieved 2 years ago and similar to N5P's power consumption that was achieved a year ago.
Sir Huawei is under sanction, so they can't use SMIC N+2, Kirin 9100 from rumors is the 14nm 3d chiplet, now many were doubtful and I can't blame them BUT with the progression of Chinese tech, 14nm tech is within their grasp. I believe the JV between ICRD and Hisilicon is the one producing this chip or Huawei is doing the packaging and finishing of an unfinished SMIC 14nm chip. Either way Huawei is getting ready to unveil a chip worthy of praise and I for one is anticipating its return. ;)
 

horse

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There is a big drawback to this article, and it's not because Patel wrote it.

This time, it's kind of like not his fault, but at the same time, seems like he's too dumb to notice it.

The word is realism. The other word is narrative.

What we are talking about here, is two things, which are commerce and technology. Anything can happen. A pandemic could breakout, a war could happen, or breakthroughs be made, or someone gets stabbed in the back.

Business and tech, that tends to operate on probability and potential. And talent.

Narratives, are neither here nor there. The US government is presenting a narrative (their narrative) of Chinese IC. Patel is parroting that in his article.

They do not have a plan the US government. They will try this, just to see if it works. Their narrative says it will work.

But what is gong to decide this, is probability, potential, and talent. Notice there is not a word about that, on Chinese capability. Chinese capability has no function in these American narratives. In all American narratives, the Chinese are beaten back.

When that does not happen, another version of the same narrative comes out. ROTFLMAO!!!

Look at this chart, (somewhat different than what was posted the other day).

Telecom-Equipment-Revenue-H1-2022.png


The US narrative is that Huawei is declining or on the ropes. According to evidence complied by a third party, of the four major Western firms in telecom gear, 3 have seen their market share decline during this US government sanctions against Huawei, whose market share is still actually above from the period when those US actions against it started.

Also, check out this article about Germany and Huawei.

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Deutsche Telekom will not use Huawei in the core, but the radio access network gear from Huawei still is to be deployed. Since there will be more basestations and antenna than routers and switches, we can guess who will be selling more equipment and making more money out of it.

That remains unmentioned, because it goes against American narratives, the narrative of dealing with the Chinese from a position of strength.

Two things we can say about American narratives in regards to China.

1. the narrative has only loose connections to reality, if at all

2. the narrative rests on prejudices, and not on sound facts (pt.1) or proper understanding of commerce and technology (basically they making this shit up as the go along because they have no better idea since they are clueless.)


For Patel to regurgitate the clueless-ness, shows his lack of independent thinking, and blind spot to the party line.

A simple deconstruction attempt of the news, will lay bare these recent events and sanctions from the US government, as more bans to nowhere.

:p

Let's not kid ourselves what is happening here this time.

The US government was presenting a narrative against Huawei, which is largely false, because other than the phones, it mostly failed. That was a narrative against a single Chinese company.

This time the US government narrative is against an entire Chinese industry, the whole mo-fo-ing stack.

Well, if the narrative did not succeed in derailing Huawei's strength, then we should be realistic about this current narrative.

Comrade Chang will probably confirm all of this in the next couple of days, to make sure everyone is on the same page, of the narrative!

:oops:
 
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Weaasel

Senior Member
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What can one say except a begrudging props to ASML - they've defended their market share in China tooth and nail, they've de-Americanized their DUV lineup and are dumping machines as fast as they can into China, and they're busting American sanctions like their life depends on it. I have to say this took me by surprise.
I am expecting the Americans to eventually give them an ultimatum, and one will see whether they will be so defiant... As far as the United States is concerned preventing any company from making sales of lithographic machines of 28 nm nodes or less is what is most important. It does not matter whether ASML will lose much money or will even go bankrupt...
 

european_guy

Junior Member
Registered Member
lol Dylan Patel.

Many major Chinese companies and universities will no longer have access to the American supply chain, which includes practically every large company in Europe, Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, Singapore, and India

holy crap

According to this salivating moron the whole world is an American supply chain!

The only worth takeaway from this fanboy article is that they added not only YMTC but also NAURA to the
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, so that soon it will end up in the entity list too.

This is sensible, because show us what looms on the horizon: in the next round of restrictions they will go after Chinese equipment manufacturers.

This is totally expected and foreseeable, nevertheless Chinese equipment makers should with extreme urgency fully localize their supply chain, now more than ever.

Regarding YMTC, US now forced them to finally "pull this painful teeth" once and for all and end with US suppliers. It was in the air since years. Time to do it and move on. I don't see it as a negative thing, maybe painful in the short term, but if YMTC wants to grow in the market and have a future without being worried everyday about supply chain external disruptions it had to make this step.
 
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horse

Colonel
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This is sensible, because show us what looms on the horizon: in the next round of restrictions they will go after Chinese equipment manufacturers.

This is totally expected and foreseeable, nevertheless Chinese equipment makers should with extreme urgency fully localize their supply chain, now more than ever.

This seems like going too far.

Although I do not disagree in principle in what you're saying, as it probably will happen.

Just that, it just seems so weird.

What we are talking about, is IC and American totalitarianism.

For the world basically.

I really don't know how the Chinese will respond?

Because, we are suppose to be the totalitarianism.

This does not compute.

:oops:
 

hvpc

Junior Member
Registered Member
I am expecting the Americans to eventually give them an ultimatum, and one will see whether they will be so defiant... As far as the United States is concerned preventing any company from making sales of lithographic machines of 28 nm nodes or less is what is most important. It does not matter whether ASML will lose much money or will even go bankrupt...
It's my opinion, you are all giving ASML too much credit. Yes, they continue to sell tools to China, but it's not like they were giving more systems in favor of China over other countries. What they did, continue to sell to China in spite of U.S. pressure, as well as what they didn't (not selling EUV), are nothing special. It's just business, nothing more.

Commend them for not giving in to American pressure. But they are just watching out more for their own benefit than China's. If they are truly China friendly, lets see them defy the U.S. and continue to sell advanced systems + EUV to China.

The reality is, the ban of 14nm and below systems, probably mean ASML will continue to do business with China except they will be adding NXT2050 & 2100 to EUV systems as something they can't (or won't) sell to China. Even then, I don't think this will be a big impact to ASML.

At the end of the day, ASML will still get theirs. They'll come out okay, what they won't sell China, they'll just flip it to the Americans. They'll still be the 'winner' in this whole thing. I didn't blame them for not selling EUV to China & I won't give them credit for selling DUV tools to China. I'm not going to tout them as a hero for us or anything until they exhibit more favoritism to China over the U.S.
 
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