Chinese semiconductor industry

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weig2000

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There are a few key breakthrough nodes that aren't simple die shrinks. 28 nm and 14 nm are some of the critical nodes.

14 nm is the first FinFET process which many companies are unable to do because it is more challenging in many ways: it has a disproportionately smaller minimum feature size than the planar process - the fin width. The diffusion rate of photoinitiators in the resist becomes important at such small resolutions. This means hard mask rather than polymeric resist, which introduces challenges in resist development and removal.

28 nm and associated classes like 20 nm, 22 nm, etc on the other hand is the smallest planar node. It combines all the experience of prior nodes: high k dielectric replacing gate oxide, tungsten gate metal, copper interconnect, SiGe use, strain engineering, immersion lithography, etc. It is basically the highest development of the prior processes in development since the 1950s.

Each of these critical nodes has a ton of companies drop out and no longer keep up with the leading edge.

7nm is also a key node. It's where transition from DUV to EUV is needed; it's also a sweep spot node in terms of cost/performance ratio, after which the cost increases much faster than performance.
 

caudaceus

Senior Member
Registered Member
There are a few key breakthrough nodes that aren't simple die shrinks. 28 nm and 14 nm are some of the critical nodes.

14 nm is the first FinFET process which many companies are unable to do because it is more challenging in many ways: it has a disproportionately smaller minimum feature size than the planar process - the fin width. The diffusion rate of photoinitiators in the resist becomes important at such small resolutions. This means hard mask rather than polymeric resist, which introduces challenges in resist development and removal.

28 nm and associated classes like 20 nm, 22 nm, etc on the other hand is the smallest planar node. It combines all the experience of prior nodes: high k dielectric replacing gate oxide, tungsten gate metal, copper interconnect, SiGe use, strain engineering, immersion lithography, etc. It is basically the highest development of the prior processes in development since the 1950s.

Each of these critical nodes has a ton of companies drop out and no longer keep up with the leading edge.
Good thing actually that you have something that can churn out FinFET down to 7nm albeit with imported tools and materials. That mean tool and material makers can learns instead of blindly try and errors.
 

Quickie

Colonel
This doesn't make sense and Biden's strategy is actually achieving the opposite

The administration’s strategy is to deny China the capability to indigenise its semiconductor industry. If the US is successful, this causes a huge problem for Beijing’s strategy to be a world-class player,” said Martijn Rasser, a security and technology expert at the Center for a New American Security, a think-tank.

This comes from the U.S.'s delusion with the bull that China can't innovate and make things for itself without reverting to copying and reverse engineering. The U.S. historically has been trying to deny a lot of technological stuff from China for example trying to isolate China from international space exploration, specifically, the I.S.S.

What happened next is this makes China more determined to do things by itself and that so far in many cases has proved to lead to a much more successful outcome than it would otherwise be.
 

lube

Junior Member
Registered Member
This comes from the U.S.'s delusion with the bull that China can't innovate and make things for itself without reverting to copying and reverse engineering. The U.S. historically has been trying to deny a lot of technological stuff from China for example trying to isolate China from international space exploration, specifically, the I.S.S.

What happened next is this makes China more determined to do things by itself and that so far in many cases has proved to lead to a much more successful outcome than it would otherwise be.
US decision making on sanctions relies heavily on a few career officials in their Commerce Department.
I remember a reading an article on how a select group of 'smart' academics there determined what sanctions to put on Russia with their own models and economic projections. I'll see if I can dig it up again.

As to their accuracy, the fact they have to keep doubling down on new chip sanctions as previous ones become ineffective can be interpreted several ways.

Echo chamber-like behavior makes mistakes more likely than not. And the stakes are pretty high here for the USA.

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“We recognize that the unilateral controls we’re putting into place tomorrow will lose effectiveness over time if other countries don’t join us,” said a senior Biden administration official, who spoke anonymously to preview the new rules on Thursday night. “And we risk harming U.S. technology leadership if foreign competitors are not subject to similar controls. That engagement is a priority for the Commerce Department.”

New restrictions on American chipmaking equipment will apply only to specific tools that cannot be purchased elsewhere in the world. “We don’t have an interest in restricting a U.S. company from exporting a tool that would immediately be backfilled by a foreign firm,” the official said, adding that it’s “important to ensure that our allies and partners see that the United States is moving ahead to implement these restrictions.”

Sounds like a joke, I don't think they thought too deeply about this.
Wait until they realize it's a mistake and start threatening Samsung or Nikon for smelling a market opportunity.
 
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Blitzo

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Having multiple accounts for any reason is a bannable offense.

The issue with the IP system is using a VPN service can result in different people having the same IP address. There have been past examples where this has been the case.

The IP system far from full proof, so the moderators do act with some caution and look at other indicators before banning members if there is suspected duplicate accounts.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
7nm is also a key node. It's where transition from DUV to EUV is needed; it's also a sweep spot in terms of cost/performance ratio, after which the cost increases much faster than performance.
Once you get into EUV things start getting weird.
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My opinion is that EUV is not as difficult as the move from planar to FinFET in terms of process alone. The equipment is hard but for the fabs, integrating EUV is not as hard as integrating stuff like high-k dielectric, tungsten gate, etc.

nano3-640x333.png


as you can see, initial costs after 28 nm start doubling at 16 nm, then triples at 7 nm. So that's 6x higher cost for 7 nm just to get started.
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, but
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, that is, kept off to keep within power and thermal constraints. So 50 million.
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You get ~3x higher transistor density for 6x higher startup cost. Per wafer processing costs are even higher since you need to introduce EUV, special EUV resists (which are all hard mask resists), more metal layers, etc.

This can only be justified through extremely high volume and price simultaneously. That's something like a mobile SoC or a gaming GPU. For everything else compute related such as business workhorse laptops, automotive/industrial CPU, TC, etc. 28 nm is absolutely fine (and indeed may be too much). Not going to get into opto/power/RF.

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european_guy

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Sounds like a joke, I don't think they thought too deeply about this.
Wait until they realize it's a mistake and start threatening Samsung or Nikon for smelling a market opportunity.

Thanks for posting this. In the article there is the link to the official draft, I tried to find it yesterday but without success.

For interested people, this is the official text.

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Regarding the content you posted, unfortunately I expect all foreign toolmakers will be affected, not only US firms. It is impossible ASML will not be banned too. US will do anything to make ASML succumb: if they have to blow up a pipeline under ASML building or send marines there (considering ASML is in Holland, it would be quite convenient, they are already in the nearby) they will do it. If they fail to coerce foreign toolmakers, their actions will backfire hugely and they are well aware of this.

OTH the fact that they proceeded with announcing and publishing the new rules, before, by their own admission, an agreement with foreign toolmakers was found, it makes me think that they tried hard (we know they did), but as of today still did not succeed....or maybe they are just so arrogant and full of themselves that simply did not care.

If ASML, by nothing short of a miracle, eventually succeeds in resisting this wave of rage, I promise they will be my hero forever! I will hang an ASML factory's picture in my room! :D:D
 
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